You are browsing the archive for Joran Hagglund.

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by Rune

Saab defies logic

November 11, 2011 in News

TTela today brings an interview with Sven-Åke Berglie the ex-head of the suppliers’ organization [FKG] as well as a few quotes made by his successor Fredrik Sidahl in Sweden.
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by TimR

Muller will not give up!

April 12, 2011 in Editorial, News

In an article today at DI the ex government representative during the SAAB sale Jöran Hägglund gave his view on the current events:

Victor Muller’s persistence suggests that Saab will sort out the crisis. This is the belief of Joran Hagglund who was one of the key players in Saab’s last crisis. “My experience is that Muller does not leave until he has solved it,” he says.
It is just over a year since the negotiation of Spyker Saab purchase was completed. At the time, Joran Hagglund was the State Secretary at the Ministry of Industry and worked closely with Maud Olofsson. He was also appointed as the government’s negotiator in the Saab “deal.” Today, Joran Hagglund works at Vattenfall and follows the current saga of Saab at a distance. When di.se ask him to speculate on Saab’s chances of resolving the current crisis, he says:

“I can only see it from the outside, but my experience is that Muller won’t give up until he has solved the situation, so I would think that will be the case this time as well.”

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by Swade

Friday Night Snippets – the kitchen sink edition

October 15, 2010 in News

I’m still catching up with a lot of stories after my expedition this week….

——

Saab are reported to have received interest from other companies in using their Phoenix platform, under development for the new Saab 9-3 replacement.

Victor Muller was speaking in the US earlier this week….

We’re in constant dialogue with a number of players to share the (9-3) technology. There are parties that are interested in talking about possible licensing of the technology

There’s also talk there about BMW and the proposed Saab 92 model, but Victor was being coy once again on that one.

“Clearly we have a preference, but whether it’s BMW, I can’t tell you,” Muller said. “BMW would make a wonderful partner.”

——

I love Sweden and all the people I’ve met there.

Even thieves are nice in Sweden.

——

Joran Hagglund, the Swedish government’s point man on the Saab deal earlier this year, has decided to leave the public service.

There’s no word yet on what he’ll do next but he says he’s got offers on the table. I’m sure he won’t be bored.

Mr Hagglund – you frustrated the daylights out of me sometimes, but you came through once you were pushed hard enough. Enjoy your semi-retirement.

——

Today’s “Nice Price or Crack Pipe” vehicle on Jalopnik comes from the classified pages of Saabnet.

Saab 900 Carlsson mockup

It’s a Carlsson mockup and it’s very, very white.

I can almost handle that and think to myself that it might be “Nice Price”. Then I see the back. Definitely re-worked under the influence of the crack pipe. Sorry, Saab owning friend, but that’s just not on.

Thanks John C!

——

Hirsch upgrade information for selected Saab 9-5 models has been shown on the Hirsch website. There are no prices yet, and not much information on whether this is just software or if there are hardware upgrades still to come, but it’s as follows:

  • TiD – original 160hp/350Nm. Tuned 180hp/400Nm
  • 2.0T – original 220hp/350Nm. Tuned: 260hp/400Nm
  • 2.8T – original 300hp/400Nm. Tuned 330hp/430Nm

All are listed as “Coming soon”.

I would wet my pants if I got the opportunity to drive that 2.0T configured like that. With increased oomph but the same light weight and agility, It’d be more fun than a sack full of grandpappies.

——

I have a couple of great purchase stories to share in the coming days. I’ll share a few pics now, and stories later.

First, Greg Abbott’s picked up a new 2010 Saab 9-5 Aero and is one extremely happy camper:

Greg Saab 9-5

And Marko’s picked up a Saab 9-3 TTiD SportCombi with a story so cool I actually forwarded it on to Victor Muller today. I’ll share it here soon.

Marko Saab 9-3 Aero TTiD

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by Swade

Get you Hagglund book at a great SU discount!

September 11, 2010 in Saabology

Jörgen has been good enough to negotiate a discounted price for SU readers on the purchase of a copy of Joran Hugglund’s book – The SAAB deal from the inside.

Our thanks to the publishers for making this exclusive SU offer.

——

The recommended normal price in Swedish bookstores is 350 SEK, incl VAT. The SU special discount price is 180 SEK, incl VAT. That’s almost 50% OFF.

Freight within Sweden will be 80 SEK, and to the rest of world just 90 SEK.

Just email an order to info@ekerlids.com and mention “Special Price Saabs United 180 kr” in your email.

Cheers!

Click here to read Jörgen’s reviews of both Saab sale books.

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by Swade

Review – Hagglund and Froberg books about the Saab sale.

September 11, 2010 in Saabology

Our man in the Saabs United Historic Rally Team, Jörgen Trued, has spent today reading the two books that have come out this week relating to the sale of Saab Automobile.

His notes are below. Shortly I’ll have some instructions as to how you can get your own copy of the book at a special discounted price.

Thanks to Jörgen for these summaries and thoughts.

——

As I wrote on SU yesterday I have now read two of the most interesting SAAB books in some time. Both authors have a personal connection to SAAB having owned one or owning one. But there stops the similarities. They cover the same BIG story but from different perspectives.

The Fight for SAAB : Jonas Fröberg

Jonas drives a 900 from 1988. He talks about his sweet memories of a blue 99LE 74 up in northern Sweden as a kid. His book is over 300 pages long and is a great book covering much about Saab history not only the roller coaster of the last 2 years.
That part is very nicely written giving the names we have come to know just by names, much more in detail. Such as that Mark Bishop’s girlfriend is from Trollhättan, information on Scott Mackie, the GM Negotiator and Enrico Digirolamo, the GM Financial Europe officer.

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by Swade

Thursday Night Snippets

September 10, 2010 in Saabology

An update on the Castriota interview…..

We spoke for around 30 minutes a few days ago before unforeseen circumstances jumped in the way. We plan to continue what was a very interesting conversation some time in the near future. Stay tuned.

——

Here’s Joran Hagglund’s book, on the dash of one of the SUHRT Saab 99 Turbos!

Hagglund Book on Saab

In case you haven’t seen it in comments, there’s a fairly good chance that Jörgen from SUHRT has organised for a discounted price for SU readers who want to get a copy (it’s in Swedish, by the way).

I’ll post details on that as they come to hand. Thanks very much to Jörgen for checking it out and the publishers for the offer.

——

And yes, there’s another book about the Saab sale coming out very soon. This one’s by Jonas Froberg, the motoring editor at SvD.se

He thinks his book is a bit broader than Hagglunds. I guess someone will have to measure them side by side.

——

Speaking of Hagglund, he’s done a brief interview with E24.se where he talks a little more about the book and what he thinks of Saab’s prospects….

How do you find the new owner behaved?

- I think they have a huge commitment, a great energy and a strong desire to succeed and really show the world that they will manage to drive the Saab as a fairly independent producers.

Good to see them question him about Koenigsegg, too.

——

Does anyone really need to update Facebook from their car?

Seriously?

Thanks Peter G!

——

Noted on Twitter for all you Brits…..

Are there any GB Saab fans going too HUY in October? We have a convoy taking place if you want to join in www.southwestsaab.co.uk

Also, has anyone got UK sales numbers? I hear they were up around 140% but I’ve lost my bookmark to the body that publishes them (and Jonathan Nash still isn’t talking to me……well…… actually, he never has.)

——

Last, but by absolutely no means least……

Congratulations to Toomas Heikkinen, who won the 2010 Finnish Rally Championship driving in Per Eklund’s Saab 9-3!!

And about next year….

The vehicle situation is interesting: thanks to Topi’s excellent performance, quite a few offers and interest have been expressed by several parties. Some new car makes have also been mentioned in the discussions. In this connection, we would certainly like to see Eklund Motorsport as one of the parties involved, since their service this season has been the level of service we would like to see in normal daily working life too – unbelievably dedicated and committed! The Saab, as a make, is not excluded either, says Jarmo Heikkinen, choosing his words as elaborately as a politician.

I have a feeling that it’ll be something different to a Saab and he’ll be competing in something more elaborate than the Finnish Championship, but hopefully Saab will have something for him to drive in a few years from now.

Congratulations Topi!

Thanks Marco!

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by Swade

Joran Hagglund’s book about Saab sale gets briefed

September 9, 2010 in Editorial, Saabology

Various news services are coming out with snippets and quotes from Joran Hagglund’s new book about his time involved with the sale of Saab.

This translation is from SvD and was provided by Arild.

Some commentary from my own point of view follows the excerpts.

——

Hagglund reveals GM’s hidden agenda

Saab Automobile was supposed to be doomed.

General Motors had early on decided to close down Saab but to the public GM gave a different impression.

That there really was a hidden agenda and an internal power struggle is revealed by the government’s car crises man, Secretary of State Jöran Hägglund (C) – who himself had preferred to see Fiat as the new Saab owner.

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by Swade

Jöran Hägglund writes a book about the Saab sale

September 7, 2010 in News

I’ve just heard from a friend in the Swedish press that Jöran Hägglund, the secretary of the Industry Ministry at the time of the Saab sale, has penned a book about the sale of Saab Automobile.

It’s due for release on September 9 and promises to provide a pretty unique insight into the deal. The title (or a translation of it) is “The Saab deal from the inside”.

Jöran Hägglund’s role in the sale grew as things got closer to a conclusion. He was eventually appointed to handle the government’s role within the deal on a full-time basis after the Koenigsegg deal fell apart.

From that perspective, it’s going to make for an exceptionally interesting read. It’s my concrete belief that Koenigsegg were poorly served by people in the government, who rarely took their bid seriously and only realised the full extent of the danger Swedish Industry was facing when Koenigsegg finally pulled out.

Hägglund’s assessment of his colleague’s conduct during that time will make for some very interesting reading.

Of course, the deal got done in the end and Hägglund played a vital role in that happening. If anyone’s going to have a well-rounded perspective on what really happened during 2009/10, it’ll be him.

I just hope there’s a version translated into English.

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by Swade

Another controversial DI.se article, feat. Joran Hagglund

February 2, 2010 in News

There was a really poor article on DI.se over the weekend, which featured in comments but didn’t get any oxygen here on the front page.

DI.se and their sister news service in print really seem to find some joy in sticking the boot into Saab, looking to turn almost anything into a story that doesn’t show them in a negative light.

I’d be surprised if they didn’t have hidden fart-o-meters in certain pairs of executive pants just so they paint even the slightest details in a poor light.

This latest effort features a conversation with Joran Hagglund. It doesn’t always make for easy reading, but you’ve got to see it in the context of the election that’s coming up and the attacks being rained down on the Swedish government by the opposition. We’re now in political mode so everything has to be viewed through that particular prism.

There’s a few people who probably deserve a right of reply to this and they’re welcome to it here, though they might choose bigger media to do so.

My thanks to the semi-anonymous goofball who translated this from the print edition into comments earlier.

——

State secretary Jöran Hägglund has been hailed as the saviour of Saab.

In a candid DI interview, he reveals his wish for Chinese help in the relaunch of Saab, and is unable to conceal his disappointment at the end result.

He condemns Saab’s reconstruction process, criticizes Koenigsegg’s lies and calls the latest bidding round a joke with unserious players.

Now he demands that Spyker owner Victor Muller accounts for the financiers behind the purchase.

“Pity that it didn’t work out with the Chinese”

Jöran Hägglund, state secretary for Minister of Industry Maud Olofsson, has during the past year been the government’s coordinator of the work with the automotive crisis. The situation turned urgent in February last year, when Saab was put into reconstruction and lawyer Guy Lofalk was set to lead the work of finding a new owner for the company.
“It was a strange process to have some sort of public bidding, and it brought both high and low in for a look. It was like scrambling through the Yellow Pages for automotive companies and inviting them in. And then they still ended up with three. One could wonder why those particular three and no others were chosen. Both Beijing Auto (the BAIC industrial group which was later to buy used Saab tools from GM, editor’s note) and Geely were interested.”

Was it a pity that it didn’t work out with the Chinese?

“Considering that China is the big car market now, and will be for the foreseeable future, it was a pity. It’s no longer the most important to be biggest in the American market, instead it’s about being biggest on the Chinese one. The prerequisite for succeeding there is to be in among the leading, bigger players, and in that context Beijing Auto and Geely are interesting leads.”

And a more interesting lead than Koenigsegg?

“Yes, I think so. Koenigsegg and Spyker have in common that enthusiasts are behind them, and that doesn’t have to be bad, but I think that with the backing that they (BAIC and Geely) have from the Chinese state and Chinese banks, that would be a more long-term foundation.”

How did you react to GM’s declaration of intent to sell Saab to Koenigsegg?

“We were a bit surprised. We met a large number of interested parties, and Koenigsegg was a group that had come together rather quickly. None of the people in Koenigsegg had much experience in the car industry, or in negotiations. After they had bailed out, when we had a follow-up meeting with them, they told us that far into the negotiations, they had missed some important components. So in spite of all the deals, they didn’t have a whole car.”

How were you affected by the question marks about the financing and the role of American Mark Bishop?

“That was negative. We had a big controversy with the Koenigsegg gang along the way. They gave us a false picture of why Mark Bishop bailed out. We figured it out another way, confronted them and explained that if they were to keep talking to us, they should be sincere. That made us lose speed. They didn’t give truthful answers to direct questions. We don’t ask that they should tell the whole truth, but you shouldn’t lie in the face of a negotiating partner.”

Business man with a dubious background

The row concerned that Mark Bishop, a shy business man with a dubious background, was claimed to have left Koenigsegg as an owner and main financier of the Saab bid, but was later, in early fall, found to still be in the game, since he was trying to sell off his Koenigsegg shares.

But Jöran Hägglund stresses that Christian von Koenigsegg wasn’t guilty of the lies, and he doesn’t put the whole blame for the breakdown in the negotiations at the end of November, when Koenigsegg withdrew, on the Ängelholm sports car maker.
“Saab wasn’t a complete company. Saab was basically a cost centre within GM, where costs for research and overhead were dumped. To really find that which was Saab has actually been going on until November, December. So it wasn’t all that easy for Koenigsegg to buy something which wasn’t a finished company.”

What have GM said about the Koenigsegg negotiations now afterwards?

“GM themselves say that they were ‘miles, miles away’ from being completed. There were a great many contracts and details that took time, since Augie Fabela (American financier with a background in Russian telecom company Vimpelcom) who ran the negotiations didn’t have any experience from the automotive business.

After Koenigsegg withdrew, a new process was started with old and new bidders. How do you view that today?

“It was a big joke. We did a background check on one guy who had really been into us. It turned out his company didn’t exist, and he had gone personally bankrupt in October. When we confronted him, he stated that that was true, but that he had forgotten to mention it.”

Were there any of the interested parties that you took to in the December process?

Especially Beijing Auto. What I know is that Beijing Auto are still very interested in a cooperation with Saab, and I think that can turn out very well. We’ve said so to the Saab management and to Spyker.”

How did you regard GM’s decision to wind down Saab?

“I fully respected it, but it became ambiguous when in the same breath, they said that they would look at any bid that came up. I think that from December until now, they crassly started to calculate what a wind-down would cost, adjusted the price to that and wanted to come to a quick conclusion.”

Meticulous vetting of Muller

In the third bidding process for Saab, Spyker were back in, but so too were various consortia such as Luxembourg-based Genii Capital, with Swedish spokesperson Lars Carlström, and a Swedish group led by former vice Prime Minister Jan Nygren. However, that a former political heavyweight, who had also been vice CEO of the Saab defence group, got involved in the process didn’t create any pressure on the Industry Department.
“Not other than that we’ve spent considerable time listening to him and his gang and other interested parties, since we felt that we should at least hear what they had to show for themselves.”

How did Nygren and the other bidders compare to Spyker?

“There’s no comparison. When the bids were to be submitted to GM on January 7, Spyker had a stack of deals and highlighted changes. The Nygren gang had a two-page document, as did Genii and Carlström. Genii’s press release was longer than the bid.”

Was there any serious financing behind it?

“No.”

Were you alarmed by Muller?

“All the things that turned up, we knew about. We had vetted him meticulously and confronted him. People can have dealings with tax authorities, that happens to Swedish business leaders too, but you have to put it into proportion.”

Spyker have a history of great hopes and weak sales. How did you view that?

“People must be allowed to do business, good or bad. But of course we noted that it would have been better if there had been a big strong industrial player. But there wasn’t one, and then you have to decide on the ones that are available.”

You have handed the question about financiers of the Saab deal on to Victor Muller, but he hasn’t answered. How do you feel about that?

“There could be reasons for that, but I think it’s up to him to disclose them.”

Do you feel that he should give an answer?

“Yes, I do.”

Are you aware of the financiers?

“We have been given an accounting, yes.”

——

Swade here…..

That right there was the most important question of the bunch. The Swedish government were entitled to demand answers, and they received them and approved them. Same with GM.

You don’t need to tell your neighbor what you do for a living, but if you go for a loan, you have to tell your bank manager.

If Victor Muller is in a position where he has to disclose those arrangements, then I’m quite sure he will. If they’re private as the investors wish to stay anonymous, then that’s their business and as long as they’re legally entitled to anonymity, any demands from the press are just posturing. Nothing more.

Back to the article…..

——

Can you see any reasons why he doesn’t publicly reveal them?

“Not really. Unless there are agreements that mean it’s too soon for various interested parties to come forward. Only he can answer that. He’s the only one who has that picture.”

Are you sure that the Russian Antonov family are out of the picture?

“They are out as part owners.”

Are they out as lenders?

“He’ll have to account for that himself. We can’t do the puzzle through all links backwards, what all the constructions look like, but it has been important to us and to GM that they aren’t in as part owners.”

Political mudslinging

The Social Democrats have pointed out that the then Prime Minister Göran Persson traveled to Detroit and GM the last time Saab was threatened, and have claimed that Sweden has been represented at too low a level with a state secretary. In connection with Jöran Hägglund’s latest trip to Detroit, critics scoffed that he didn’t get to meet the top GM management. Out of respect for the negotiations, Jöran Hägglund kept quiet and didn’t reveal that he actually did meet GM boss Ed Whitacre.

“I think there has been a great deal of political mudslinging in Sweden. It has also been argued that the Germans sent Angela Merkel, and I can only note that that wasn’t particularly successful. Our conclusion has been that it’s at least as important to have established contacts, a trust and that the opposite party knows what it is you want. We’ve developed that with GM without it having been the Prime Minister who made the calls.”

Have GM asked for higher-level representation from Sweden?

“No.”

Do you believe in a happy ending for Volvo as well, in the Geely negotiations?

“It’s too soon to tell. Everything can happen in a negotiation. But if they go all the way with Geely, I think it can turn out very well. I’m strengthened in that opinion after having been to China and met representatives of the government.”

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by Swade

Swedish government have ‘good talks’ with GM

January 12, 2010 in News

As you know, a delegation from the Swedish Government is in Detroit to have talks with both GM and Ford about the sales of their respective Swedish units.
From Bloomberg:

Swedish officials, including State Secretary Joeran Haegglund, the government’s main liaison to the auto industry, visited GM in Detroit yesterday to explain how Sweden can guarantee a 400 million-euro ($580 million) loan for Saab from the European Investment Bank, the European Union’s lending arm, said Haakan Lind, a government spokesman.
The Swedish representatives held “good” talks with GM officials, Lind said in a telephone interview today. The officials discussed how fast the loan can be guaranteed, depending on which bidder gets to buy Saab, he said.

It sounds like the Swedes are giving more details, which means they’ve done more homework and may be prepared to get down to a little more action.
Folks, I can feel my optimism rising.
Action from the Swedish government is what this deal has been missing all along. With reports of their help, the protests and pressure from US dealers, all of the other reports surrounding GM’s bungling of this deal and then the emotive demonstration by Saab workers today, I think there’s a lot of pressure building on GM to get this done.
They really are NOT looking good, nor competent at the moment.

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by Swade

Swedish govt late to Saab rally in Detroit, but hopefully bring more firepower

January 6, 2010 in News

The Save Saab rally in Detroit today saw a great outcome for Saab with plenty of positive press coverage that will keep a spotlight on GM.

Those die-hards aren’t the only ones with Detroit on their travel schedule, however.

Reuters reports:

STOCKHOLM, Jan 5 (Reuters) –

A delegation from the Swedish government will meet with General Motors [GM.UL] next week in the United States to discuss the future of loss-making car unit Saab, Sweden’s national news agency said on Tuesday.

Representatives from Sweden’s finance and industry ministries will meet in Detroit with Saab parent GM and Ford (F.N), currently in the process of selling its Swedish car unit Volvo Cars.

“As we understand it, GM has not closed the door to a sale (of Saab), even if the official line is a wind-down,” state secretary Joran Hagglund said.

“We want to make totally sure they (GM) have all the information they need.”

As mentioned previously, there is more going on with the Swedish government that we know publicly and it’s incredibly encouraging to hear that Joran Hagglund’s heading back over there during the Detroit Motor Show.

I’d love to get a look inside Joran Hagglund’s briefcase to see what “all the information” looks like :-)

—-

Speaking of the Detroit show….. Saab won’t have a stand there, as many of you know. But they will make an impact in another way. I can’t pre-empt the official announcement, but the Swedish government won’t be the only party interested in Saab to be in Detroit next week.

——

UPDATE:

Here’s another article, translated from the original Swedish by Viking. It gives a little more information.

A delegation from the Swedish government is going to Detroit to meet with the leaders of GM and Ford in the beginning of next week. On the agenda: The futures of SAAB and Volvo.
The meeting will take place in connection with the international auto show in Detroit. From Sweden representatives from both the finance and enterprise departments will participate.

It’s basically the same people that met with GM before their board meeting in December. Then SAAB was given a month to find a new owner but already on the 18th of December, GM stated that SAAB would be wound down.

“From what we understand GM hasn’t totally shut the door for a sale even if the official line is a wind-down. Now we will make sure they have all the information they need, so for example there should be no misunderstandings regarding the EIB process” says Joran Hägglund, secretary of the enterprise department to Swedish news agency TT.

TT: Will the government push for a sale of SAAB rather than a wind down? “We want to be sure that the buyers are serious. Even we can’t defend a sale of SAAB at any cost. It has to be good for SAAB” says Joran Hägglund.

To know if there is a buyer who has both a long term interest and financial strength Joran Hägglund wants to wait for the final bids that GM will receive after this Wednesday.
With Ford the government will discuss the planned sale of Volvo to Geely.

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by Swade

Spyker meet with Swedish government. Comfortable?

December 17, 2009 in Editorial

To quote from a seasonal song…….It’s beginning to look a lot like (the) Christmas (from hell) for Joran Hagglund, who must now be regarded as the second-hardest working man in Sweden. Jan-Ake Jonsson remains in first position on that table.
You’ve only got your staff and the SNDO to blame, Mr Hagglund, but please don’t be dis-heartened and please keep moving along. What we need now is a result.
The hard part about getting a result now is that Saab belong to GM, and GM can sell to a party of their choosing. At this late stage of the game, they have chosen Spyker. Whispers coming through from Sweden say that Spyker have been super-impressive in their knowledge and their work ethic and are powering along through this process. That might indicate that this would be a fait accompli, but nothing’s ever that simple (which is where Mr Hagglund comes in).
Whilst Saab is GM’s to sell, any buyer looking to take Saab on are going to want the EIB loan, which means Swedish government guarantees are involved. That means Mr Hagglund has to make a decision about whether or not to put the Swedish government in bed with the new owners.
It’s a matter of perception only, really. The government guarantees are covered by Saab assets valued at around 150% of what’s actually being loaned, so there is no risk to the Swedish taxpayers’ money. But financial risk isn’t the only risk involved here. There is the political risk as well.

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by Swade

Hagglund – GM should nominate buyer for Saab this week

December 10, 2009 in News

Sweden’s Saab Czar, Jöran Hägglund has come out with a quotable theory today, claiming that GM should make up their mind on a preferred bidder for Saab by the end of this week.

The article appears in svd.se and here’s your Googletrans:

“If GM is serious about the success of a sale, it is important that they quickly decide. This week, they probably have chosen one of the stakeholders – otherwise it will be difficult to conduct a business in this short time, “said Joran Hagglund, who now works full-time affair with Saab.

Even if sales do not need to be ready before the year end as a potential buyer must be reviewed and that takes time.

Sub-GM has lots of contracts to negotiate, and the EIB and the Debt Office will conduct a thorough economic analysis of the purchaser and its financial strength. Time flies, “said Joran Hagglund.

And some info from GM as well:

“Our board has said it will evaluate potential buyers this month and make a statement before the year end, says press officer Chris Preuss.

So the process can proceed early next year?

-Yes, if there is a pronounced buyers who have financial stability to push through the deal as soon as possible.

GM will give financial help to Saab during that time?

- Yes, we will continue to drive Saab during that time. But I think that a right decision on the Saab will come very soon.

It’s good to get that assurance on continued funding if a viable buyer is identified.

Whilst I’d welcome GM naming a prospective buyer this week, my hope is that they explore all the options and find the right buyer.

——

With thanks to Dan in comments.

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