Further infos for the 9-5 MY ’12 are beginning to surface. And what the guys in Trollhättan do is incredible.
The people from Ynnor AB have tested today the new 9-5 SpotrsCombi.
First the SC, the rear seats will have 10 -15mm more headroom. They have compared it against the V70, A6 and 5-series, and it seems to perform at least as good.
The interior materials (no photo)have been upgraded for both SC and Sedan.
And now the (new) engines. There will be a 136 hp diesel added to the current 160hp and 190 hp diesel engines. The two smaller diesel will stay below 120g/km (maybe the Sedan only, maybe both).
And now the concluding words from the article.
The world premiere is located at the Geneva Motor Show. Then open the order books and after the summer may be the first customers of their cars.
After some tortuous km outside Trollhättan, one can conclude that the new 9-5 SportCombi has every chance to take back market share in the segment.
It is on par with or better than several of the class’ top sellers on several points. It is a distinctive car with a host of premium features. Merchants guarantee the residual value at lease customers. It will be hot game among families with children in the secondary market, if not already the new vehicle.
Wow! That sounds almost too good to be true. A sub 120g 9-5 is quite amazing! But doesn’t it say that it isn’t know exactly when the sub 120g will be introduced? So it could be in the year 2012 (not MY12)? “Exakt när det blir vill inte Saab säga i dag.”
I’m very curious about the update interiormaterials…
Your point.
But I think this sentence is 100% strategic. As Jörgen Trued normally says, don’t talk about the future models.
I think Saab don’t want to give a time line perspective too future buyers. If they need a car, they should buy one now. 😉
Well, the article states that the sub 120g CO2 engines is for MY2012.
There will also be a lane departure warning system, start/stop-system and more.
Great to hear that interior materials are upgraded! That’s very important, because the current interiors are maybe the biggest flaw in Saabs.
Of course I mean materials, colours and options, details from GM parts bin. Design and forms are great as always. 🙂
Absolutely everyone should read that report. Even with Googletrans it’s very encouraging.
Swade, eight posts in one day! Weren’t you going to take it a bit easier? 😉 Please don’t leave us now when things are getting really exciting again.
My bad. Looks like I can’t either count or read (today). Sorry Red J.
Think about it RS: You belived Swade wrote it, but it was Red J,
i.e. Red J writes like Swade. That is the finest compliment you could give somebody in the Saabnut world when it comes to wrting texts! 🙂
I guess so and I have to admit that I’ve made the same mistake a few times before 🙂
Fully agree on the interior! From what I could see it looks almost like the panel they showed for the first time when presenting the 9-5. Just wonder why they can’t be fitted earlier than MY12.
When does MY12 start? sep. 11?
Fiscal year 2012 starts on October 1st in the US. I think new models for the next calendar year usually start becoming available in October/November.
July 2011: a model year is from july to june the following year.
Typically these cars are delivered to customers during the fall, from about august-september.
I just finished reading the swedish article and boy, that made my day… Makes me wanna be at Geneva as well 🙁
I can not see were it says that the sub 120 g will be only for the sedan?
Apart from that, sub 120g for such a large vehicle with 160 hp is… well… close to rocket science. I did not believe that was technically possible without hybridization.
It is gonna be sweaty for the the V70 in Sweden, that is for sure!
TurboLover,
I’ve put the sedan only in brackets, because I’m not sure about that. They talk about under 120 grams engines, and also say that the SC will have slightly higher CO2 values.
Case #1 : Both cars are under 120 g. 114 g for the Sedan and 119g for the SC
Case #2: 119g for the Sedan and 122 g for the SC
I think both cases match to the text in the article.
BTW, I depend on Googletrans, so maybe I miss some information .
It says that the new model year will bring a Start/Stop system and that will bring down the theoretical fuel consumption in the euro cycle.
Patrik,
I’ve re-read the article, and I think that you are talking about a different Start/Stop system.
What you mean is as system that stops the engine when the car stops.
Otoh, Saab talks about an advanced cruise control (ACC) with start stop capability, which means that the car will stop if the car in front of you stops, and it the car in front of you starts rolling once again, your car will follow without you having to do anything. (The system of the 5-series works also in this way, afaik)
Börjesson,
as I’ve said I relay very much on Googletrans, so it is complicated to be that accurate.
I’ve based my assumption on one information brochures i have from early 2010. There they speak about ACC (advanced cruise control) with FCA (forward collision alert) and Stop&Go, which was meant to be available for MY 11.
I think, we will have to wait till Geneva.
Fair enough, Red! And if the guys have managed to get below 120 without using a start/stop function, then that’s even more impressive (and leaves a potential for further reductions).
You are absolutely correct. Both cases work, but since the article as a whole is about the SC I concluded that it must be sub 120g for the SC, but I could be wrong. Maybee you could change the:
(in the Sedan only) to
(unclear if this refers to both the sedan and the combi or only the sedan)
or something like that.
…just realize i might be too meticulous here…
Great reading!
Saab on its true way: Being among the leaders in technical innovation and evolution! 🙂
Correct, there will be start/stop and the estate version will also have two diesels below 120g co2/km.
Here’s a short reviewof the new 9-5 estate, use google translate and you’ll see =)
http://automotorsport.se/news/22240/saab-9-5-sportcombi-provk%C3%B6rd–redan/
I’m still a bit worried that a sub-120g/Km car of the size of the 9-5 is too high geared; hopefully driveability won’t suffer too much.
Probably the highest gear has to be an overdrive.
You can hirsch or maptun it up to 210 HP and 450Nm. 136 is only for better sales (lower taxes), that’s not actual power engine can produce without significant loosing in MPG. This engine will be more than enough for diesel driver.
Doctor,
nobody knows that engine, but if this is only a software down-tuned version of the TiD4(160) then as of today, only Hirsch can update it to “only” 180hp and 400Nm.
otoh, If you use the Hirsch tuning you will have to add 8 g CO2 to the stock value from Saab, and if you do it officially, I don’t know if you then loose the tax reduction.
I like two sentences most:
“The biggest threat is the market’s fear of poor residual values, but it feels unwarranted”
“Sweden is obviously more boring without Saab”
I belive SAAB would use this in an advertisement!
“SAAB is alive and kicking, the world would be a more boring place without SAAB!”
=)
Hmm I wonder is the August version of the Combi MY11 or MY12? I would guess MY11.
Anyway, bit of cold shower for earlier 120g/km skeptics.
MY12, I think model year is changed mid-year, in summer as far as I remember.
That is the kind of cold shower I’d happily take every day 😀
/ One of the former sceptics
Unbelivable!
I`d say this is the most important step for Saab on the way to success so far.
I agree, Ynnor AB is a company that advices the big companys leasing fleets
Yes, Saab apparently can!! It is great to be able to witness such great engineering spirit.
The report was very nice read – I liked the comment about 9-5 SC being on par or better than competitors. Well done Saab!!
Red J, you do an excellent job here too – you are always on top of things!
+1
+2
+3, can’t wait to order the new sport combi
+1 Our new Crown Prince!
What a beautiful article. Difficult to hold back tears reading the last sentence.
Sorry to disturb the party. For most purposes the 136 hp seems to be seriously underpowered for such a heavy car. 160 hp is great to have it with under 120g//km, will be fine for fleet sales, taxis etc. The most important model is the 190hp, as it will be combined with the XWD. Aside from that, great news regarding interior, start/stop,
In Norway the Volvo V70 with only 109 hp (and 119g/km co2) sells like crazy because low co2 emission and low power means less car tax. It was the second most sold car in 2010. So apparently horsepower isn’t everything.
Arild, it depends on the market, and Germany is the less CO2 problematic market. For instance the TTiD XWD 9-5 with 176g/km costs you only 112€ per year more in Taxes than a
< 120g car with the same engine displacement.
Otoh, the Volvo V70 with the D5 engine cost you 47€ more per year in taxes than the V70 with the D3 engine, although both engines emit the same amount of CO2.
Saab needs to reach the people that are not interested in power, but in economics.
The 136 hp sub 120g makes great sence for a large group of possible Saab buyers, but for very few Saab nuts.
We should salute the 136 hp anyway, because there aren’t enough hard core Saabs nuts (yet…) to keep the brand alive. Saab needs to broaden their possible customer segments.
I addition: An “under-powered” Saab is as beautiful as a fully powered one when in trafic 🙂
spot on
We talk here about diesel and 300-350 Nm from very low revs is for most purposes beyond traffic light duells quite a sufficient trade off for most people when it comes to having to pay only 50 – 60 percent of the variable cost of the vehicle over life!
I don’t have the time to write much about it right now, but you are wrong. Power is for sure relevant for more than top speed. The easiest (but somehow simplified) way to estimate the overall performance of a car is by looking at the power/weight ratio.
Agreed, maybe I should refrase: Performance is not everyones key deciding point on a car. Good mileage and lower operating cost (including tax) are as much of the essence for some. And yes, someone with that preference can be a car enthusiast too 😉
jos, to that I can agree 🙂 I think that engine could sell pretty decent in some markets, for example highly taxed Norway and Denmark.
“by looking at the power/weight ratio”
Yes, but you have to do this as a function of rpm. Usually the HP curve peaks at high RPM, many times close to the red line. For normal driveability that’s kind of useless. Torque at lower rpm will make it feel like the car is moving with less effort and if the torque curve continues up (or even if it stays flat) until red line then that really puts a smile on your face.
Yes, GerritN, I know about that. I just wanted to simplify things a bit (as I wrote). You get much closer to the truth by talking about power/weight than torque/weight. And I of course see what you are after about the driveability, but I disagree to some point that the peak power is useless for normal driving. With an automatic you rev past the peak power at kick-down. And as for driving a manual and knowing how to use your stick it is useful too.
You can pretty much ignore the torque curve and only look at the power curve if it is performance you are interrested in.
It is power that makes the car accelerate
Power = Force * velocity
Force = mass * acceleration
more power = higher acceleration when everything else is equal
I still don’t understand the difference between torque and bhps…. I mean how can you have (at a certain RPM) a low torque: i.e. a low turning force from the engine and yet (relatively) many bhps? How come the torque curve is different than the hp curve is the real question… Maybe someone can enlighten me
Maybe we can say it like this:
Lot of HP will move you fast.
Lot of torque will move a heavy thing.
Lot of HP and torque will move a heavy thing fast.
Reply to milylainen: Thanks for commenting, and I agree with you. However, I think you meant ft-lbs instead of NM where the curves cross at 5252 RPM because T (ft-lbs) = HP x 5252 / rpm. Correct me if I’m wrong. I’ve also heard, to compare total performance of two engines, look at the area under either the torque curve or the power curve, and you get the same result either way.
Indeed, in the early 80’s Ireland’s PM drove a 900. I think the new 9-5 is an ideal vehicle given the space, presence but restrained styling, along with neutrality should be perfect for credit-crunch non-aligned countries around the world.
“The smallest are marching in a pleasant trot at 1100 rpm road speed.”
This was particularly pleasing to read as, to my mind, no car marches in a pleasant trot quite as well as a Saab.
Isn’t Google Translate fun 🙂
Price for 136hp TiD ought to be lower than 160hp TiD which today is one of the more affordable options, 1.6T gas aside? Lowers thresholds and makes it easier to compare/compete with VAG 140/170 diesel lineups.
Seems like we are looking at updated 9-5 interior at Geneva, doesn’t it?
Once again sorry VW for falling short in delivering sub 120g E-segement cars without compromising power. 105hp/140hp sub 120g will not cut it when small SAAB shakes 136hp/160hp out of their sleeve, and they haven’t even started.
Great news! I wonder what the sticker price would be…lower than the 1.6 T or higher? If it will be priced lower then, eaven with the extra combi cost, it would be a very big boost in sales to companies and such. At least that’s what I think. 🙂
Looking at the current prices in Sweden of the 9-5 and the 9-3, the TiD4(136) Sedan could be priced below 300k SEK
Let’s hope so 😀
month old video about 9-5 launch singapore, kudos to saab singapore!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sVR9Y7jBYs
Anyone know if there will be any tax incentives in the US for cars with low CO2 emissions?
I highly doubt it. There are none in place currently (to my knowledge) and given the current composition of Congress, I don’t see any new laws containing anything that might be even remotely called a carbon tax, energy tax, or CO2 tax being passed anytime soon.
This is really a very interesting piece of information.
But it is really estrange.
Looking at the preicelist in Sweden only the Turbo4(180),Turbo4(220),BioPower4(220) and TiD4(160) are less expensive than 321.000 SEK, as the TtiD4(190) costs already 329.500 SEK.
And I’m talking about the Sedan, the SC should always be more expensive.
BTW, the less expensive A6 sedan will cost 339.000 SEK, does this mean that the Audi will not qualify as a company car??
I think I get the point, thank you.
The question of wether it qualifies as a company cat would depend on the fleet sales prices or incentives given by the car companies…
I had a talk with a friend today and it seems that at his company they can het a well equipped Ovlov V60 with a “fleet sales package” and a reduction in pricing of almost 7% to keep it under the limit…
Seems that fleet sales are important to them…
Oh, and one more thing I forgot to say:
Hats off to those incredible Trolls! Fan vad bra ni är! It’s just amazing what such a small number of people, a minnow in the automotive pond, can accomplish.
“Even the smallest car company can change the course of the future.” 🙂
+1, proud to be a saaber today!
This sounds very promising! 😀
I am very much looking forward to the launch of the Saab 9-5 SportCombi since it should substantially increase the number of 9-5s on our Swedish roads. That is especially true if the skilled Saab engineers manages to get the 9-5 below 120g CO2/km. That should really boost the sales and it should also be very impressive since the 9-5 is not a particularly small car! 😉
I missed the interior update bit… That’s sometjing I’m quite happy about, as the 9-5 might have suffered from the GM-Cheapness syndrome at lauch (remember the car was ready to launch when Spyker took over, no time for last minute changes). 😀
Apparently the new 9-5 Sports Combi have been test driven allready!
http://automotorsport.se/news/22240/saab-9-5-sportcombi-provkörd–redan/
Yes.. it’s in the 3rd row in this post… 😉
Swedish AMS just refers to the link in this post and saying in a nice way that they are envious not to be the first one to drive the car.
Yes, I was a bit quick there. Here is the direct link:
http://www.tjanstebilsfakta.se/bil/biltester/default.asp?page=specific&id=1000002
Off topic:
Ever wonder how to change Xenon headlamps on a 9-5?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NoCyu0l62Y&feature=related
Nice site!
Just amazing what the SAAB engineers are capable of, it will be great to see the car on the roads.
One small detail.
Where I come from, when I was young, Saab where sold in the same showroom as Porsches. 😉
And so every market has their own Saab sweetspot. We, in Holland, don’t see Heineken as a premium brand, but it is marketed that way in other countries. Sweden should be happy to have a premium build car brand that sells as regular retail and Saab should be happy to have a homemarket as Sweden to have a decent sale in.
RUne,
what is your blue 9-5 doing?
Not good.
I mean, at least here in Germany, your car has lost quite a lot in resale value all of the sudden. 🙁
I second you in many things.
it is interesting that people say to you to buy a SuperB, as this car doesn’t sell that good in Sweden (200 SuperB vs. 148 9-5)
It’s not the same people that go for a Superb as for the bimmer. The ones that go for the Superb is the ones that value all equipment and the ones that go for the bimmer value the image.
If people were rational in their thinking, everyone would drive a Saab 😉
At least Swedish economy is doing very strong so people should buy more cars. Entirely other matter is what it will do for the currency value.
I think many will consider Saab as a “fake company” until it shows a profit.
Hi,
Next year I’m allowed to chose a new company car, and I had been driving saab’s since 1990, but 2 years ago, I couldn’t get one anymore because of the leasing companies. I hope in 2012 I can get a 9-5 sportcombi again, but then the <120 CO² issue should be there, otherwise I can forgot it again, and that is NOT what I want. Come on Saab, prove you are the number one again in innovation !!