I takes me a little while to get used to new things. I bought Radiohead’s new album The King of Limbs when it came out a few weeks ago and I still don’t like it much. I had the same reaction to In Rainbows, their previous release, a few years ago. This week, I’ve been listening to In Rainbows constantly and I absolutely love it. That’s just how I roll.
So when TV4 from Sweden put a camera and microphone in my face around 5 minutes after the Saab PhoeniX concept had been unveiled and asked for my opinion on the car, I felt a little awkward.
Like many of you, my eyes went to the most controversial element of the car – the flying buttresses – and the only thing my mind could process in those first few moments was the question “Why?” I think my response to TV4 was that I immediately liked around 95% of the car but that I was having trouble getting my head around the rest.
I wasn’t alone, either. Watching the comments come through here on the site, it was pretty clear that the initial reactions were around 50% each way – positive and negative. I was approving a lot of first-time commenters who were coming on site to share their messages of doom about how they’d never buy a Saab if this was the direction they were heading in, etc etc.
That trend changed pretty quickly, though, and by the end of the day people seemed to be getting used to the car a lot more. The day ended at around 80/20 positive. The walkaround video with Jason Castriota sealed the deal and comments to that have been indicative people coming to understand the vehicle a lot better.
Here we are, a few days later, and I’m feeling extremely good about the Saab PhoeniX concept.
The main complaint I’m continuing to hear about the PhoeniX goes something like this – how is it recognisable as a Saab? I think that’s a pretty fair question, too. There’s no doubting that there’s a fair bit of Jason Castriota in this design, as well as all the cues to Saab’s design history that he pointed to in that walkaround video.
My response to that question is this: The visual links to Saab are there if you listen to the explanations and look for them. But the important links between this concept and Saab aren’t just visual. The links are also present in the design philosophy behind the car (aerodynamics, use of technology, use of space, etc). To put it plainly – the links to Saab are not just skin deep. They extend beyond simple visuals and go to the reasons why things are done a certain way.
Let me put it this way – the new Jaguar XJ doesn’t look at all like a Jaguar XJ in my mind. But it is a Jaguar XJ because it interprets everything the XJ that I’m familiar with from the 1980’s in a modern, contemporary way. It’s a big, luxurious and elegant British vehicle.
So, philosophy aside…..
There were two other elements to the release of this car that were extremely important, one of which has been covered pretty well here already whilst the other has flown under the radar a bit.
The one that’s already been covered pretty well is the publicity for Saab that the car has generated. Eggs n Grits has covered the initial press reactions to PhoeniX and I’m pleased to say that they continue. I can tell you that Saab are very pleased with the feedback they’ve received on the car.
That message of continued life and development is so critical to Saab’s awareness mission at the moment. I’m sure dealers would prefer equal attention on the 9-5 SportCombi, the sub-120kg models and the 9-3 Griffin, but I think that will come as a flow-on effect.
Here’s just one example of the turnaround of the press coverage regarding Saab. TV4 weren’t just there to get reactions to the PhoeniX. They also had a crew there who were working on a documentary feature about Saab and the company’s resurrection (I did an interview with them, too). That feature will show later this year. Those of you who are familiar with the treatment that Saab has received from the Swedish media in the last few years will recognise that this is a massive turnaround and very positive for the company.
The other element of this car’s release that hasn’t been covered that much is the significance of the PhoeniX name with this car. It’s not just a fanciful image of a company rising from the ashes.
Most futuristic concept cars that like PhoeniX, are intended as design studies only, are purely for show and aren’t built on anything that’s necessarily linked to production models. They are a chance for designers to shake off the limitations imposed by production requirements and regulations relating to production cars.
The significance of PhoeniX is that it is actually built on the PhoeniX platform that will underpin the next generation of Saab vehicles. The proportions that PhoeniX shows – the wheelbase, front and rear overhangs, etc, are all actually attainable in new generations of Saab cars.
PhoeniX is indeed a flight of the designer’s fancy, but it’s based on very real engineering. And that’s very exciting for Saab because what people are seeing here is something that could be done for real, from an architecture and engineering point of view.
And that’s quite Saabish (moreso than the much-loved Aero-X, in fact).
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As for the car itself?
Once again, it’s something that you’ll have to see to for yourself to fully appreciate. If you’re reading this from the north-east of the United States then mark the New York Auto Show down on your calendar as it’ll be there. You have to see this for yourself.
The car is quite raw. They were still attending to some details as they bought it into the venue at Geneva and that shows if you look closely enough. It’s still not finished, to be honest. But if you take a more macro view and look at the shapes, the face and the ideas behind it, I think you’ll see something that’s absolutely fantastic.
The great thing about this car is that it forces you to think. You can’t be ambivalent towards it. I’ve grown to absolutely love it, even if I’d still like to remove those flying buttresses just for appearance sake.
The liquid metal finish emphasises the curves and the musculature of the car beautifully and I look forward to getting more accustomed to that face as it’s production representation flows on to more real Saab models in the future.
I think Jason Castriota’s done a great job for Saab here and I can’t let this post finish without pointing out what an asset he’s been for the company in terms of his presentation of the car. He’s a great spokesperson for the company.
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Ha! Finally I know what the tail reminds me of:
Pagani Huyara
I’m okay with Saab owning Aero. The Huyara’s top speed is close to 220mph apparently. Giggity.
No way!!!
The Huyara has a fat as, the PhoeniX is sleek in the back !!!!
I only mean the narrow center part. I like this.
The way the rear glass tapers looks reminiscent of another JC design, the Maserati Birdcage
From the front I could recognize Saab immediately.
Just for laughs, here’s the whole family portrait with a new baby that will never exist, but I wouldn’t mind if it did…
Fascinating progression from UrSaab to PhoeniX. Slot in a 99 Turbo near the top and we can see those similar lines in the new 9-5. Great stuff Jeff!
Where is the 2001 95 Wagon in the line up? I think ours has the same side view tail light your speak of. 🙂
I would like to see the good old aeroplane logo on the next Saab. “Everybody” has a round logo. It would be very cool and different if Saab went back to the aeroplane logo!
me too, but “Born from Props” doesn’t have quite the same ring to it?
Imagine if the “wing” feature on the front grill was PhoeniX-like but actually the old logo!
I shall be in NY as well… I wouldn’t miss any opportunity to miss the car that leads Saab into the future!
I’ll be at the NY show. Can’t wait to see JC’s work in person.
At first glance, I’m not a fan of the winglets or the airplane logo.
I’d love red seats- the red leather interior on the C900 was the best ever.
Also, customisable instrument panel. Should be one big OLED display that the iQon system can place “gauges” on wherever you want :).
That is the same I feel. I think SAAB-Design can not be some Elements. It#s the hole thing. And that ist only to name with “SAAB-Spirit”. Something that I can not say in some words. And that SAAB-Spirit can only express somebody that lives this brand, that know what scandinavian Design is. Can somebody who don’t live in sweden really know this?
The Phoenix has no SAAB-Spirit in it.
It’s super aerodynamic, space-efficient, and technologically advanced. How is it not a Saab?
I mean, to me, that’s what makes a Saab.
For the record, I love it, and I saw Saab in it before watching the Castriota video. The winglets and whatnot threw me off until I watched the video, but once I learned they were functional, I thought they were super cool.
I agree. As Swade discussed, it’s the philosophy, including also safety, fun, and responsible performance that makes a Saab a Saab, not specific design cues. I’ve read that many Saab dealers were in an uproar when the 99 was introduced — it looked nothing like a Saab (i.e. 96), I nearly puked when I saw the first leaked images of the PhoeniX, but I really love it now, and it’s a true Saab to me.
Too funny… I was about to mention Björn Envall, and Mark already beat me to it.
I think Sasson would be ok with PhoeniX. Saab needs to be a bit daring now, and this fits the ticket.
The JC designed 9-3 will put everything right I’m sure.
There are many out there – non-Saab drivers – who would say that the current 9-3s are aggressive looking cars from the forward perspective. Some even call them ‘angry-looking’ and ‘Darth Vader’ automobiles. So to say all Saabs have always been benign in appearance is not absolutely correct.
There’s an old ad that I used to have taped to my wall that showed a 9000 flying over a hill with about a foot of air under it. It said “A rare act of aggression from Sweden.” I loved that picture, and I lost it, and now I can’t find it, but Saab has pushed the aggressiveness of their cars since the 80’s. I think 900s and 9000s look very aggressive.
I totally second that – what a great idea !! but only, if they would really lower the c-value by let’s say 0,02.
As JC has already explained in some videos, the buttresses replace a rear spoiler, increasing the rear down force like a rear spoiler without increasing the drag.
So, if you don’t want a first gen TT kind of car, you need a drag generating rear spoiler or the flying buttresses, which really look more refined.
So it doesn’t actively reduce the drag, but it doesn’t increase it either while increasing the rear down-force.
Thanks RED J for the info, I was very aware of that and is one of the reasons I appreciate the buttresses, I just related it to the optional “real 9-3 aero-package”. 🙂
I think the buttresses – ugly or not – are so much better than an ordinary wing. Everybody can (and usually does) put a wing on their car to pretend it is a fast car.
But the buttresses are a) for real and b) definitively different and that is Saabish to me.
And we shall not forget that this is a show car. Show cars are always more spectacular than the production cars. I don’t expect to see the buttreses or the lambo doors on the new 9-3.
Quick question- does the Phoenix only have one wiper? Just noticed that. I love those single wiper designs, my mom had one on her Mercedes. Can’t see that making production.
Also, I just realized that the wings remind me of hair. Really awesome flowing hair. It’s the first car that’s not bald actually. Pixar should give it a spot in the next Cars.
Yes, it has only one wiper.
And regarding to Pixar; people that use the Gremlin in their movies are not allowed to use the PhoeniX. 😉
…those flying buttresses…
Aren’t they just an extension of the C-pillar ventilation covers on the original 96?
While for an aerodynamic purpose, rather than ventilation…?
And they reduce/eliminate the need for a huge rear spoiler…
In any case, they are part of the controversy and caused a lot of needed discusion – GREAT!
Troels,
you have done as always very sharp comments about the design, which I respect as I like your design, but JC has designed 4 Saab cars this past year. This one was meant to cry out loud: LOOK AT ME!!!, and I think he has done it quite well.
The clear Saab lines have to be in the other 3 cars, imho, and JC has repeated it a couple of times since Monday that the other three will have clear Saab lines.
Time will tell, since then, I love the Alien.
Thank You, Red!
I see your point, and actually, what I meant, but maybe not expressed so well – due to my weak English – was exactly that I am looking forward to see a well balanced, yet “provocative” new 9-3 design . (filled with new Saab-technology, as we have heard 🙂 )
“Sometimes, I get out of my 9-3, and turn around to lock it, and I stare at the hatch for 10 minutes because something caught my eye.”
Jeff, don’t worry, you can get replacement rear wipers quite easily 🙂
It has been said that the 9-2 can’t use the Phoenix platform. So it’s only 4.6x m (9-3) to 5 m (9-5) with the next 9-4X somewhere in between.
Well, it evidently is 4.4 m. Maybe Saab made some progress in developing the platform. Considering what goes on at Saab lately, I would not be surprised.
On a Finnish forum we discussed about the PhoeniX´s driveability. I don´t see a reason to doubt JC´s word about the driveability. He says it´s fully functional car, driveable. I had to grab a screenshot from a PhoeniX presentation video where they show the engine without covers. just in case some of you have not seen this video, here´s the shot:
http://tinyurl.com/6dwxpfp
thank’s so much for the hint, i guess you meant this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEF3xBGwNNQ
there’s no word of aggressive but dynamic – distinctive -PROgressive -> that’s exactly the key: saab’s progressive – not aggressive….. so SAAB please please, don’t become “audi-ish” but dynamic and progressive !! 😉
I truly love the new awesome 9-5-design and as for the 9-3 JC will push it further and this is great…
Watch the video from 2:50-ish on: ‘sinister’ is used ….leading to Simon’s statement : “whether day or night you know that it is a Saab coming up behind you”.
[Translation: BMW Hunting 🙂 ].
Swade – nice way to put it. Overall, I think the most important aspects of the car – the platform, length, overhangs, and front end are quite good and I’d love to see on future Saabs. The wings, rear end, and modular styling is just concept stuff that hopefully was just for show.
Anyone else see a similarity to my favourite non-SAAB – the Bristol Fighter?
Right you are!!
If they had come up with that design, nobody would have complained, except for Bristol. But maybe, also nobody would have noticed.
Hilarious. I bet if you just put SAAB on the front and the airplane logo on the back JC could sell that as a SAAB to the crowd here and they’d fall for it hook line and sinker. Ask me how I know.
Too bad for you since Bristol just went out of buissnes.
Yeah! Gutted about Bristol. Can’t see there being an international “Save Bristol” campaign. Wonder if VA has still some spare cash?
I think you’re right about the engine and transmission placement. This would make it a front mid-engined design. I wonder what the weight distribution is? Lately I have been able to enjoy a rear mid engine design (Boxster) and come to realize that you loose a lot of high end driveability with the over-the-front-axle engine design. The understeer on my Viggen really limits its cornering capability.
I LOVE IT! I even like the wings, though I doubt they would ever make it into production. I look at it daily as it is my desktop and iPhone wallpaper. Now I have to sit and wait in agony like a dog looking at an unobtainable treat for signs of the new 9-3!
Cool it Dude!
If you listened carefully to Jason you would understand that the discussion here is exactly why he made the PhoeniX the way it is.
Actually…”dude”…turning people OFF to SAAB isn’t what I think he had in mind…”dude”.
Swade,
To quote a euphemism, however innapropriate, it looks like SAAB has “served cherry delight” and has become vulgar… we will all of us grieve. lol
In my opinion the PhoeniX looks great. The proposed mechanicals sound very interesting.
If, they would build it; I would buy it to replace my 99 Viggen. I would prefer to find my own road
then to follow the masses.
I just wanted to add… I didn’t realize Jason managed to pull off a “properly” opening clamshell hood! That is freaking awesome!! I thought it was just another one of those quasi clamshells like on the 9-3 or 9-4x (as opposed to the very defined clams of the c900 or og9-5)… though I don’t love the seemingly superfluous bulges in the hood, the inclusion of this design cue is very very cool!
James…
Could someone explain why everyone is getting so excited about the forward opening clamshell? I owned a 1992 900 before and I liked how the hood slid back and vaulted shut, but opened it was just making it more difficult to access the engine bay.
I found the opposite to be true. When working on my 99 and 900s, I found the clamshell offered much better access than my current Viggen.
Good observations!
Swade, you nailed it yet again. Great thread. Taking the car to the NY Auto Show is probably the smartest thing Saab could do to raise a few American eyebrows. I just wish we could see it at the Vancouver Auto Show at the end of this month.
Saab Up!!
Case in point! Most people here were on the fence when they first saw the new 9-5 as well and a lot have come around on that…
I rather like the buttresses. They’re super unique and I think, more than any other part of this car, will serve to bring an end to “Saab? Didn’t they go out of business?”
JC has forced we saabnuts to do a gut check. Do we like the principles of SAAB design such as:
– The return of the hatchback
– Innovative technology
– Driver-oriented cockpit
– Aerodynamic focus
– Power through efficiency
Or do we like the results of SAAB design such as:
The reverse hockey stick
The SID
The Night Panel
The Griffin
I think that he took us deeper than a surface-level valuation of our supposed ideals and I think that he shook our collective tree. Well done, JC.
The PhoeniX gets better looking every time I see it, although I would probably leave off the wings (handles?). But looking at it now, all I can think of is that it would be unbelievable as a Sonnet, sitting in the Saab showroom. Also a perfect platform for the 92.
Look at this breath taking concept http://www.pininfarina.com/index/eventi/Special-2010-Geneva-Motor-Show/2uettottanta.html and then look at the PhoeniX. Nuff said?
That’s a good design (though not up with Pininfarina’s best, in my opinion).
And it’s a brilliantly appropriate design… for Alfa.
I’m afraid that italian flair would never translate in any useful or correct way to a scandinavian car brand..
What I wanted to say: this is a good, clean design with clear, elegant lines and with appropriate brand-DNA (Alfa-DNA in this case)
A very beautiful, even sensual, car-design.
“Just look at the Honda Aerodeck (mid 1980ies), that was my design proposal. ”
Sounds like he would have been quite proud of the Biohybrid;)
You are also correct that the PhoeniX is not a teardrop. I’m sick of hearing it described that way. You can’t make something teardropped just by calling it teardrop.
Funny, I just remembered the sneak peak article from Feb 12 here: http://saabsunited.saabklubben.se/2011/02/geneva-press-invitaion-and-jc-concept-peek.html
Everybody was asking questions like: horn “thing” what is that?
— or speculating that it was a rear spoiler
Well, now we know. Amazing how well they camouflaged the rest of it. 🙂
This design is baffling. Ostensibly, it’s meant to evoke the Ursaab (which was a genuinely groundbreaking car). Where the Ursaab was taut and restrained, though, this thing is festooned with fins and folds and curlicues from tip to tail. It’s as if Castriota completely misunderstood the fundamental beauty of the Ursaab – and perhaps, unfortunately, the entire Saab legacy.
I do like the PhoeniX but there are only two things I don’t agree with in the design. The two bulbs along the hood sweeping backwards. And the dotted tail light. I would prefer a smother slick line of ice-block/led-thing.
I completely agree on the tail lights. (And the interior should be green).
The hood is, intentionally, a bit exaggerated. But somebody pointed out that it resembles the sonett closely:
http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-1960-1969/1968-Saab-Sonett-V4-red-fa-lr.jpg
But yeah, I hope they tone it down a bit for the next 9-3, and JC confirmed that
The thing in the middle of the hood on the Phoenix I don’t have so much to say about. It’s the two longer “horns” that flow from the grill backwards to the A-pillars. Those are the ones that has to be dropped. But I do like the new grille. It’s clearly more aggressive than the current one.
It will be interesting to follow this work.