New engine for the Saab 9-5

Today I’ve received the price list for the 9-5 MY 12 for Germany. Prices will be valid from May 30th.

The SC will cost in Germany 1.800 € more than the Sedan, while the price of the Sedan will remain the same.

The 9-5 SC will have in Germany a very competitive price as it will be about 3.000 € below the Audi A6 Avant or the BMW 5-series Touring.

Although we have already heard about it, this is the first time I see official information on the 136hp diesel engine for the Saab 9-5.

The only data available about it is the fact that it will be available for the Sedan and the SC in Linear or Vector trim. But we will have to wait till week 38 to be allowed to put an order on that engine.

The HiPer Strut (front) and the linked H-Arm (rear) will be available to (almost) any engine as an option.

Sorry, but I had to talk about product again. 🙂

UPDATE:
The 3.000 € is about 8% of the base price of the cheapest car. It may be not enough, but you can do a lot of things with that money.

No I don’t have further information on that engine. But as I assume it being only a low power version of the TiD (160), I think that the engine will have about 320 Nm of torque.

Talking about the VM V6 Diesel. Even if Saab is willing to source that engine from Hawtai for the 9-5, we would have to wait till MY 13.

60 thoughts on “New engine for the Saab 9-5”

  1. Quote:
    “Competitive price as it will be about 3.000 € below the Audi A6 Avant or the BMW 5-series Touring”

    Sorry,not enough……

    • I’m almost positive that’s VERY MUCH enough off, considering that 3000 euros converts to $4,290.15. This kind of money separates different classes of vehicles; at least in the US. I’m not sure about Europe, but that kind of discount off of an A6 in the States would be welcome.

      • Well the class difference I can buy here is an upgrade to alloys on 3 wheels.
        5-spoke Carve 18 x 8.0″ would cost me €4200 extra on a base Linear over the standard Wheels

          • I know.
            It was only to point out that It is hard to compare prices across countries.
            The cheapest base Linear costs €70.000 here with the fully equipped 9-5 Aero costs about €170.000.
            They are still selling though.
            My family owns 4% of the total 9-5 sales in Denmark for 2011 🙂

      • I don’t think one can convert this piece of information into dollars. It may be that price difference in US is less than that. Remember that cars are cheaper in US than almost anywhere else in the world. Nevertheless, in my eyes, Saab pricing is very competitive.

    • It would be nice to know what this is based on?
      I don’t know the german car market, so a little explanation might help
      In Denmark €3000 doesen’t really matter, but we are an extreme case

      • Is that true, that in Denmark, the taxes are highest in Europe, or maby in the world? If yes, that’s what’s killing sales. If they have to spend huge money, people prefer to buy popular makes, like “the German triple”, so Saab needs a bigger discount to fight for the place in the market.

        • Oh maybe.
          We have a total taxation of about 80-85% of income.
          Car taxation is about 180%

          BUT:The conditions are the same for all producers.

          If you spec up any of Ze Germans to Saab levels, they are about €10-15.000 more
          On the leasing market, both private and company Saab prices are also better.

          Saab DK will not discount for private buyers
          They have a very defined strategy, backed by the mother company, Andersen & Martini, one of the largest importers in DK.
          80% of sales for many years has been company leasing, and I suspect they intend to keep it that way.
          Prices for leasing companies are a lot different, but not officially available.

          The main factor for killing 9-5 sales in DK is that it is not really a car that we need except for prestige.
          That makes the decision to buy a Saab over a German a decision based on all other factors than price.

          • well, thanks for explanation, every market has its own differences, I’ve heard some stories about DK from the people, who work there, as a guest workers, but on not complicated positions, so they’re not interested in the way of life and a car market, now I got a word from a real Dane 🙂

  2. Competitive in price is the wrong position in market. Is the 95 worth to buy it must be the question.
    Other point is the “powerful” 136 hp diesel. I had a 93-I with 125 hp diesel. Not bad, enough to fight with the 2.0 tdi with so called 140 hp. But 95 is an other area, car weights much more. 136 hp is a showcase for low CO2 and nothing more. From values I can’t feel emotions. My current 95-I Aero Saab Performance feels better.

      • Then take the stronger TTiD version. It’s not like your choice is limided to that one,
        Though this one might achieve some emissions goals that might make it a very attractive choice in some markets, which will do the necesary numbers.

      • Remember that diesel engines have much better torque than gasoline engines, and that is the reason I think a 136 hp engine will work quite well. If Saab can get the 9-5 below 120 g CO2/km with that engine it would be outstanding, especially if it is both for the sedan and combi! Volvo are selling truckloads of V70:s with 115 hp diesel engines here in Sweden…

        • I was thinking that, but I’m not sure of the official figures, so I wasn’t gonna conclude on just that…

      • I must have forgot about the torque advantage… The 136 comes into play as a good base for the 9-5, especially if it does have the large amounts of torque associated with a diesel. Unfortunately, here in the States, we don’t have any rebates/incentives that I know of for cars emitting less CO2, probably because they mainly don’t exist here! 😀 It makes sense for Europe, though.

    • And as we can see the fight for “below 120g CO2/km” – it’s a special offer for GB market, that will rise sales, bring money, and let the other countries still enjoy Saab as a live structure 🙂

  3. Are there any more specifications available for this engine, like torque, fuel economy, emissions and so on?

  4. Think this will be a killer in the Dutch lease market. Plenty of torque and with out speed restrictions more than suitable for the job. the 1.6 Turbo 9-5 does exactly the same 😉 Very clever to introduce this one, cannot wait to testdrive one. Not all of us need a bhp monster 😉

    • here it would be interesting to know how big portion (%) of all sold diesels is in these small ones at the competition offerings (a6, bmw5, v70…). There somewhere is the truth if customers are interested or not. I am a bit sceptical …

      And than the snail feeling on the first km’s after crossing the NL border to a german highway …

      • I can’t say for sure but for example in Sweden the VW passat sold about 50% of the diesels as <120g versions in Sweden in March. Volvo has just reintroduced the V70 DRIVe, but in October about 1/3 of the diesel sales of the V70 in Sweden where DRIVe models.
        Audi and BMW don't seem interested in that sector as their best performer emits 135 g.

      • A sub 120 g/km 9-5 will improve sales, no matter how good or bad it works.

        The reason is that in Sweden a significant number of large companies have environmental policies that mandates that all rental or bought cars should be environmantally friendly, which typically translates to below 120g/km limit. (Biopower cars sometimes but not always work around this limit.) Going above this requires special permits, so when renting a car nobody bothers. That means the rental companies can only rent sub-120 cars to these companies. What the driver thinks about the engine doesn’t mean one iota (unless he’s so unsatisfied he chases another brand).

        So, having a sub 120g/km engine means the car is on that market. If not, you’re out. And at my end I much prefer an undermotorized Saab than an undermotorized Volvo…

    • Doctor,
      maybe you can tune that engine to 180hp as the 160hp version, but only if Saab uses the same brakes for both cars.

      Hirsch is the only one offering a upgrade for that engine, at this moment.

      • Maptun tunes 130hp to 210.. and you do not need brakes, and you wont be busted by dealer if you got maptuner =) If Hirsch offer brakes + tune for 130Hp -> 200HP it would be even better.

    • I’m afraid it’ll be difficult to get over 200HP, the 136HP version may use less efficient injectors, different computer spec and many other engine diffierences, that may cause it uneconomical to buy a 136HP version and upgrade it by a tuner.

    • Yes, in some countries it is, the difference from 160hp to 136hp makes the car about 3.000 EUR cheaper in Norway (even if it had the same CO2/km). What I hear most of the 9-5s her are sold with the 160hp diesel engine.

  5. When the Hawtai deal surfaced, it was speculated that this might also be a source for a V6 Diesel engine, because Hawtai manufacturers such an engine, licenced from VM Motori. What will happen now in this regard?

    • I don’t think a V6 diesel is needed any longer as they seem to be ‘niche’ cars even in Europe. Jag recently put a 4-cylinder diesel in their XF so it appears the big boys are starting to think small-er.

      • Do you happen to have statistics on this? V6 vs i4 numbers? That would be quite interesting.

        Of note, the V6 might also be about smooth running. Since more than half a year I now want to test drive a V6 to find out more about its subjective smoothness.

        • Thyl,
          having a V6 Diesel is a prestige thing, and I don’t know if BMW, Merc and Audi sell many of them outside Germany but I don’t think so.

          • Really? The harsh sound and vibration of my four cylindre Diesel is killing me. As this is worst at low speeds, why should this not be a problem in other countries as well? Anyway, no statistics 🙁

          • Thyl, a 6 cyl diesel is always a high power engine. It might be less rough than a 4 cyl, but because of the higher price, it doesn’t make sense to many.

          • Red, as a premium manufacturer I think Saab should definitely offer engines that can compete in that class in the future. People who drive more that 50k km/year, can enjoy autobahns and who want that extra prestige (incl. the Chinese?) will imo buy 6-cylinder diesels.

            The average Joe don’t unfortunately hold Saab that premium without an engine range. I just looked at ovloV and it seems D5 is only slightly more expensive than the D3 (don’t know if these are any good though).

            Guess it doesn’t have to be like with B where they rob their customers blind going from 2.0 to 3.0?

          • http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2011/04/eu-plans-to-increase-diesel-tax/

            Is this really the right time to put efforts into integrating a big diesel engine?

            That is a genuine question btw. My impression is that diesel is nastier (more particles), not as smooth and somewhat noisier.

            Meanwhile, ethanol… Yum. (I base my belief on Kjell ac Bergström’s statement a few years ago where he stated E85 and diesel engines would approach eachother’s consumptions as emission requirements tightened)

          • I have no trouble banning all the TDI 3.0’s of the world to get a level playing field (remember the Teknikens värld premium diesel test).

            Rune, isn’t ethanol something only your liver should burn? 😉 How about Bio-diesel from almost anything?

            Doc, is right. A bigger (only 800cc more than our current ones) diesel is more like common sense. We got to remember the 9-5 SC is no small car. Saab shouldn’t have any trouble making a V6 consume under 5L/100 km highway. Maybe we could this way steal/bring back a lot of D5, TDI 3.0 and 530d buyers in Europe, but what do I know…

  6. I wonder if the engine is fundamentally different from the 160 HP TiD and 190 HP TTiD (as the old 1.9 TiD, TiDS and TTiD were) or just a remap (as the current different versions of 1.9 TTiD are). Any info on that?

    • Bravada,
      I have no info on that, but reading the between the lines of the price list, I assume that the 2.0 TiD will be offered with two different mappings.

      So Saab will still be selling only 3 different diesel engines, the 1.9 TTiD, the 2.0 TiD and the 2.0 TTiD.

  7. Without this 119g engine sales figure would be bad. Even if the costumer pick another engine Saab become an alternative and that it self brings sale. You want to be an alternative and not out in the cold. Ovlov V70 costumer is the target and they have there eDrive .

  8. I don’t understand this big issue about diesel engines.

    Diesel cars are; a) more expensive to buy, b) more expensive to repair, c) the diesel fuel costs about the same as petrol per liter, and d) diesel cars are subject to an substantially higher annual car tax rate – at least in Sweden.

    If buying a car for some USD 90 – 100 000 which is the price for a fully optioned 9-5 SC in most countries…..the issue of saving a few kopek’s on fuel is more a Joakim von Anka argument.

    Personally, I am not ready to endure ” the John Deer sound” in concert with the noice from studded winter tires.

    Environmental hysteria is one thing – adapting to sober life circumstances is another.

    That said….I am not even responsive to the “John Deer” diesel advocates.

    I have earned my money in a serious way, and I will use it to my own discretion, without influence from 3rd parties.

    Thus, I feel NO SHAME in placing an order for a PETROL 9-5 Aero SC 2,6 XWD, with full specifcations.

    However, I want it in “Fjord blue” and with “parchment” interior. When SAAB is able able allow selection of the parchment carpet also – like in the Vecror series – I will sign on the dotted line immediately.

    I am sorry….I can not stand dark interior colours.

    • ken, my wife just asked me to check on the current 9-3 pricing.

      Let us compare the 163 bhp biopower vs the 160 bhp TTiD. The diesel costs 10000 SEK more (258400 SEK in total). I believe road taxes are similar for these two (first three years – no tax in Sweden)?

      10000 SEK buys you 1031 liters of E85. Mixed driving is 6.7 liters / 100 km. But E85 is supposed to be 30% less effective (though the new direct injection engine is supposed to be more frugal when run on E85, no?). I think you can safely get atleast 9000 km of driving done before you will see any economical benefits whatsoever from the diesel engine.

      But… Something seems to happen when accelerating 80-120 kph. 12.5 seconds vs 10.6… The diesel, once it finally gets moving (0-100 is slower), is faster.

      Whatever floats your boat I guess. Downshifting to fourth would probably alleviate any problems in that situation. Having a choice of engines is good. You and I would not choose the diesel, but others may feel differently. 🙂

  9. Is it possible to share that official information / link that PDF? Can’t find it over at saab.de. What’s the entry price for 136hp diesel linear?

    • I’m sorry but this is no officially published document. I think it will go public on Monday.

      The entry prices are as follow.
      Petrol ( 1.6T 180)
      Sedan: 33.700 € SC: 35.500 €
      Diesel (2.0 TiD 136)
      Sedan: 34.800 € SC: 36.600 €

    • Fully agree. The 190hp ttid with automatic is more important than any sub 120co2 diesel in the 9-5. If they can bring the ttid with automatic AND XWD that is just great.

      Saab can do better than 136hp.

      • “Saab can do better than 136hp”

        I don´t know the weight on a SC but lets say 1750kg and from there get under
        120g is not that easy. It´s very good infact, remember Saab is a small player, all
        competitors are much larger in comparison and they are not better than this.

        But the TTiD with automatic and XWD would be great. Hopefully soon!

        Everything is about:
        Power (alot)
        Consumption(extremely low)
        Features (lots of it)
        Costs (low enough)

        And all versions should be available to satisfy all……….=cash and even more cash, hard cash!

  10. The one thing what interests me most from Red J’s entry is the fact that I can now order for my 9-5 SC 2.0 T Aero Bio power with XWD the Hiper Strut front and H-Arm rear suspension which was until now exclusively reserved for the 2.8 engine :)))))))) and when i´m reading the price list of Switzerland correctly, this option will cost me only about 824 € 🙂

    Cool things are happening right now

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