Victor Muller is either in the US, or in China working with Pang Da and Youngman to find a solution. In any case Eric Geers says that he is working 24/7 to find a solution.
Further the people of Hemfosa are also working over the weekend to get the real estate deal done.
Quote from the CEO of Hemfosa Jens Engvall:
….We’re working on this now, and will keep working over the weekend if necessary. Monday is an important day. It’s vital now that we find a solution, he says.
Thanks Börjesson for the tip.
And there are also people like Steven, Swade, Wade who are not going to let it go, not now and not later.
For me its time to switch off the computer till Monday (I’m too much of a junkie, so I think I will peek a couple of times over the weekend).
Today I will spend a nice evening with my wife, and tomorrow I will be nice to my car and clean it inside and outside.
Have a nice weekend everyone and be nice to your Saabs.
Have a good weekend Red J and everyone in Saab land.
We are supposed to have a heatwave in the UK this weekend, so I’ll be out there cleaning all 4 of my Saabs.
Enjoy!
The heatwave has started here in Yorkshire, I can’t see down the valley for all the heat falling from the sky collecting in little heat pools on the ground……..the vert just made it back from’t pub before the heat really started and is now tucked up in the garage.
Liquid sunshine, ah summer has finally arrived in the UK.
Saabsideways, since you came from the pub is it really the heat that blurs your view…? 😉
Have a nice weekend, mate!
Raining in the South aswell! Hoping VM pulls a big fat rabbit out of the hat…… but not sure even he can save Saab this time!
“Enjoy your weekend and be nice to your Saab”
🙂
always!
It’s really sad. I just don’t know what to think. I was really looking forward to the new 2013 SAAB 9.3 eXWD. It just doesn’t look promising. I don’t understand why the Sewdish government did not financially help out SAAB? Why should SAAB go to China…Russia and look for help?? Perhaps…BMW….or some other car manufacturer may want to buy SAAB?? Maybe General Motors…now that they are back in the swing of things…
I don’t understand why you and many others is expecting the government to finance Saab. Why should Saab be treated differently from all other companies with financial problems, or do you mean that the government should save all companies?
There is a couple of good reasons for a responsible government to act in case of Saab
These reasons does not necessarily fit in with the Neo-liberal views of the swedish government, but somehow it would be nice if they actually decided to use tax-payer money for a little subsidizing of industries that has a chance of longterm survival.
I expect nothing of the Swedish Government other than that they give all attempts to re-finance Saab privately their highest support and blessing
If they do not do that they have failed their own policy.
The actual situation is a Neo-liberal government letting red tape and bureaucracy kill off a private company.
Bad stuff.
Just as bad politically as when other Neo-liberal Governments decides to support their industry, banks and a couple of countries on the brink of Bankruptcy to protect their own longterm interests.
The above is an exaggeration and does not cover the very complex things going on, but it works for me 🙂
First, it’s your personal opinion that Saab has a chance of getting profitable in the long term. If the market shared that opinion it should be easy for Saab to financed by the market. The only time the government would need to finance Saab or any other company is when the market doesn’t agree it’s a good investment.
“If they do not do that they have failed their own policy.”
And what policy is that? To make investment that the market see as bad?
There are plenty of supporters of Saab who think someone should save Saab. I wounder, why doesn’t all these supports do it them self instead if they are so convinced that it will be a good investment?
They have failed their policy if they let bureaucracy stand in the way of the free market and do not help investors coming in.
They actually gave up sovereingty to EU already when they accepted to stand as guarantee for the EIB loans, so the policy is already broken
An expectation of longterm profitability is the only thing that will make the suppliers start deliveries again, so in that the market will decide.
The extremely short-term funding is not available through the MoU with China, so the short term funding will have to come from the leaseback deal, which is to be accepted by NDO, a Swedish Government institution.
In the present situation, if that takes more than a Week, red tape killed Saab, not the market.
I don’t think that someone should save Saab.
I expect the involved parties to save Saab by handling things correctly and swiftly.
And Saab being one of the involved parties has the major responsability for its own survival.
I’ve personally said since the independence when the time is right “-Bring it on!”. One of the big mistakes IMO is that the Saab management hasn’t gone out to get financing from the general public by issuing new stock on the Swedish stock exchange (100 million shares for example) in the beginning of the year if they where so short on cash.
Maybe they wanted to have a small group of people owning majority of the company -which is understandable- but now it backfired big time.
Khrisdk: “They have failed their policy if they let bureaucracy stand in the way of the free market and do not help investors coming in.”
And how did you came to that conclusion? The government say yes to Antov if EIB and GM does.
But of course you shouldn’t expect EIB to allow Saab to sell the security for the loan from EIB. If however Saab pay back the loan the EIB and the government will have nothing to say about this at all.
And you didn’t answer my question:
There are plenty of supporters of Saab who think someone should save Saab. I wounder, why doesn’t all these supports do it them self instead if they are so convinced that it will be a good investment?
Because the answer to this question has been given several times in here.
If in doubt, just read the comment from RS
People in here support Saab the only way they can at the moment, by buying Saabs.
“People in here support Saab the only way they can at the moment, by buying Saabs.”
But that doesn’t seem to be true, the problem for Saab is that so few buys the car even though there are so many supporters. And I am sure many have capital to put into Saab if they really believed in Saab.
Lets be honest, isn’t the true answer that most supports just like Saab but not at the cost it takes?
This also applies for the employees, many certainly have stocks they can sell and put into Saab, or houses they can take loan on etc.
That is much harder than require that someone else use their mone of course.
Do try to tell the employees that have stayed with the company through all this that they are to blame for not supporting the company.
They are the people that are suffering the consequenses at the moment.
Not us in here or you.
But if you are Swedish you will be the one contributing to the longterm financing of their lives if Saab goes bankrupt and your government is not able to help other industries establish that can use the workforce, both those at Saab and those at the suppliers.
The problem with Neo-liberalism in Welfare States is that if the market dosn’t respond positively and provide employment to a certain percentage of the population, your country is headed towards a serious problem.
Unless of course you abolish the welfare state.
You do know that the playing field isn’t level? Many large car companies got some help during the last 5 years; Saab got nothing; they have to compete with these companies. That doesn’t mean Saab should get anything just because … but it’s definitely annoying seeing companies all over the spectrum, many inferior to Saab, getting help.
The government, taking care of Swedish interests, should be happy that they have a car industry that generates lots of income, job opportunities, research vital for the broader automotive cluster in Sweden, and research in general, and do what it can to let that company survive, not stand in the way. The Swedish NDO has given a “go ahead” for changes regarding owners and investors in SWAN, Swedish Automobile N.V, the owners of Saab Automobile. At that point I don’t think the government should wait on the EIB; their own experts have given a “go ahead”. As for waiting on GM; they have shares in Saab, and part of the old deal was to let go of one previous owner in Spyker, that now, as mentioned, want to invest in Saab, I’m not sure what the government can do; but with regard to the EIB, I don’t understand it; that’s *pure red tape*; and if they wished the best outcome, it sure looks odd.
As it is now, there is no way for the supporters of Saab to “save Saab” in the way you are alluding; it doesn’t matter if we all bought a second, third, fourth, fifth etc. Saab; indeed, it is support and it makes them stronger in the long term but it doesn’t save them now; they can’t build ’em because they need parts, and for that they need short term financing. And we can’t step in and buy new shares, as mentioned.
“But that doesn’t seem to be true, the problem for Saab is that so few buys the car even though there are so many supporters.”
Have you completely missed the fact that Saab has sold more cars during every month this year, even during the last months; and now have quite a backlog; this is a short term financing problem, occurring during *a sensitive phase*, around 18 months in as an independent car manufacturer.
“Do try to tell the employees that have stayed with the company through all this that they are to blame for not supporting the company.
They are the people that are suffering the consequenses at the moment.”
Well they have hardly been working at all for three months and still got full payment, that’s not really supporting their company. If I were in their shoes, I would at least offer a pay cut during this period. If I really believed in the company I would also offer to invest in the company.
“The problem with Neo-liberalism in Welfare States is that if the market dosn’t respond positively and provide employment to a certain percentage of the population, your country is headed towards a serious problem.”
It would be way much worse if the government used the tax payers money to save all the companies with financial problems.
“You do know that the playing field isn’t level? Many large car companies got some help during the last 5 years; Saab got nothing; they have to compete with these companies. That doesn’t mean Saab should get anything just because … but it’s definitely annoying seeing companies all over the spectrum, many inferior to Saab, getting help.”
I totally agree that that’s not an argument for using the Swedish taxes to save Saab. Rather the opposite, it may be a good reason to stay out the car business just because of this fact. It will be very hard to be profitable in such a climate.
“Have you completely missed the fact that Saab has sold more cars during every month this year, even during the last months; and now have quite a backlog; this is a short term financing problem, occurring during *a sensitive phase*, around 18 months in as an independent car manufacturer.”
And still, that is not even close to enough.
twirix, you’re pesky little thing aren’t you.
a) Saab would have solved its cash problems when they arose in April if the bureaucrats wouldn’t had started to drag their feet.
b) Saab hasn’t sold enough car because the lineup after GM was inadequate and it takes time to come back from the dead. I’m sure you know they haven’t had a 9-5 SportCombi to sell since the beginning of 2010. That’s why the management said from the start the first profitable quarter will be in 2012. Remember?
Oh, there’s also the new 9-4X, updated interiors, suspensions and engines (sub 120g 180 hp diesel) as well so you better check your facts before venting over here.
Twirix.
I dedicate this to you
May you life be eternally blessed.
“twirix, you’re pesky little thing aren’t you.”
That kind of talk just reveal that you your self realize your arguments doesn’t hold.
a) Who is dragging their feets here really. Muller must have seen this problem already in the end of 2010 but he didn’t do nothing until the suppliers refused to deliver. And then Saab expect everyone else to work from the first second to solve Saabs problem.
b) There has always been a lot of explanations why Saab hasn’t been profitable in the past, as well as promises that right now we have a golden moment. In the coming period we will start to make money if we just first gets a couple billion SEKs more. After more than half a century it’s a bit hard to believe such promises. Neither Muller nor Saab is not best known for being a someone you can trust.
Saab lovers have always said Saab is superior but the buyers have never agreed.
Should I be nice to the new 2011 Saab 9-5 turbo4 premium I got today? Or to the other four Saabs I have running or the one that is not?
Today’s Saab makes my 15th since 1999. I got worried that the 9-5 SC might never make it to the US, so I broke down and got a sedan instead of a wagon. Leased it from Barry Lanier at Saab of Memphis. Have to put in a plug for the local dealer and salesman Barry, who is a diehard Saab guy and SU member. He was giving me SU updates while we were waiting on the paperwork to get printed.
The car has all the bells and whistles. Glacier blue. Head’s up display and navigation. Was the owner of the dealership’s car so I was able to lease it at a demo (demonstrator) discount. All the electronics make the car more fun than I would have thought. Harmon Kardon system is really nice and comes with a forty gig hard drive.
First 9-5 lease in Memphis according to Barry. He has had a couple of 9-5 sales here, but not many. Sales of the 9-5 have been disappointing and as I pointed out on other threads, I think it just has too much price competition. I don’t think I will see many people with the same car for awhile. Hopefully for Saab, some day I will.
By the way, this really is a nice car. Really seems put together well. It does feel noticeably bigger than my older generation 9-5s and significantly bigger than my 9-3’s. I was commenting to Barry that it really seems more like a 7 series competitor than a 5 series competitor, at least when it comes to size. Lots of rear seat leg room. It is also eerily quiet and rattle free. Not fazed in the slightest by serious chuckholes and bad roads.
Congratulations on your new 9-5!
If you get the chance, fill your fuel tank up with E85 and let the SU community know how much faster you think it feels.
That’s what we tried to tell you 😉 It’s a great car. Maybe people (Saabers) just have had a hard time believing the NG9-5 is that much better than the old one and the higher price is justified as you’re now cruising around in something that compares even to a 7-series, not a …..
Glacier blue. Very nice!
It compares in size. I have a client that had a 7 until about six months ago when he traded in for a Range Rover. I never drove his 7 but I rode shotgun several times. The 7 does not seem as lithe as a 5 and I have to say the larger 9-5 doesn’t seem quite as lithe as the smaller 9-5. Different feels when you get a shorter wheelbase and less weight. So in that sense the new 9-5 compares with a 7. I doubt that BMW 7 owners would ever consider the 9-5 to be in the same class because the BMW interior materials seem much more expensive and higher quality, but if one wanted a 7 and couldn’t afford it, a 9-5 wouldn’t be a bad alternative at all.
Sorry I tried to be a bit funny. Everyone seems to be forgetting what the 9-5’s main competition is? V70/S80, A6 and 5-series. Saab is exactly the right size to go against them (every darn one is 1860 mm = 73 inches wide). A 7-series is even bigger than that. To me the Saabs few inches extra in length is only a plus. As it makes the car safer and gives a better boot size. Yes it’s a highway cruiser and should be marketed imho as one.
With all the uncertainty people find it hard -at the moment- to spend the money but the car itself certainly isn’t the problem as you know.
Saab is somewhat in a limbo waiting for the JC 9-3 which has to be exactly the same length as the OG 9-5 and same width as NG 9-3/OG 9-5 pleasing many Saabers who maybe like a bit smaller cars -until you drive the NG 9-5. Right Zippy 😉
Price is what it is for a reason (Premium car built in Sweden). With no offense intended I’ve never understood Americans complaining about prices when your purchasing power has been enormous compared to most countries in Europe. Yes it’s recession time but there are always those who can afford expensive things in a bad economy. They’re the ones Saab should go after with the new 9-5. The SC could become a real M-B E killer as we’ve seen many jumping into Saabs.
And here’s Saab’s new tagline!
🙂
No offense taken. We would have it real good, except that we spend all of our money on war, war machines, higher education, and housing, so we really don’t have much left to spend on ourselves. We get no health care, no vacation, and not much of a retirement anymore. About one percent of us own half the country and the other 99% are really struggling because all of our manufacturing base is gone. The one percent who own half of the country could buy ten Mercedes if they wanted. They could care less that Saab’s are cheaper.
David, looking at the US car sales stats I won’t believe it’s that grim -at least in every State- as the Germans (and even Volvo) are still selling by the numbers -although it must be getting worse across the board soon.
SCNA really needs to start attracting more smart people that can see the advantage of spending $40-50k on a Saab instead of 50-70k on a mainsteam European that might look better on paper -if you have no winter driving to deal with.
Seems like Tim C has to get in touch with all the sane engineers, architects, doctors, lawyers etc. of the America ones again.
The higher price may well be justified. But it doesn’t matter if people can’t afford it due to the economy. I went into the liquor store the other day to buy some wine and I asked the salesman about a good Cabernet. He suggested I try a wine he had carried for years which used to cost $20 a bottle, but because of the recession it was now selling at $12. You do what you have to do to stay in business. Cutting the price of your product when it is not selling is what you have to do. Yes the new 9-5 is probably a better car than the old 9-5. But is the new company a better company than the old? Do people have confidence it will be around?
I just wanted to thank David Mills for doing that which we would hope ALL true Saab enthusiasts would do in the midst of all this turmoil: Show your support for the brand (if you are financially capable, of course) by purchasing or leasing a NEW SAAB! Because, at the end of the day, SALES are the TRUE lifeblood of the company. If you wish to ‘invest’ but have concerns about the future of Saab, a lease might prove to be the best or ‘safest’ alternative. Success for Saab is and will be determined…..one vehicle sale ‘at a time’. THANK YOU, DAVID! …..Barry Lanier, Sales Manager, Saab of Memphis (and four-time Saab owner!)
Only four? You have got to get eleven in a hurry to catch up.
Maybe you should thank Julia. My wife has reminded me several times now it is “her” car.
I *DO* thank Julia, of course….just didn’t know that she is on SU as you are…but yes, I thank her very much!!!!
Im sorry but i wouldnt give VM the time of day at the moment
I cant help feeling he has been stringing everybody along for so long with rediculous press releases and false hopes and promises
The next time you report on his activity give us facts and not what he is hoping to do im fed up with hearing about meeting after meeting with no firm outcome- favorite lines include
‘we should’
‘there is a strong possibility by Tuesday’
‘a deal is imminent’
‘i expect production to start next week (for the last 6 weeks)’
‘it looks like we are heading in the right direction’
come on we want facts not hearsay
It’s not really only with regards to VM you can consider things hearsay.
All news regarding Saab is hearsay until there is a Press Release stating facts.
If you want facts there is nothing to do but turn off your computer and wait for that.
This is of course not what most of us would do, but at the moment there are no factual news, only statements from different involved parties.
Very interesting update on the Hemfosa situation:
http://www.gp.se/ekonomi/1.660830-tata-kontakter-under-helgen
So it seems to depend on the government and EIB all over again. And will they do anything this time?
Well, the real estate deal as such doesn’t depend on the EIB. But according to Hemfosa’s CEO, they would ideally prefer if Saab got money from several sources at once, including the next payment out of the EIB loan, to maximize the chances of survival (which would make the property deal more agreeable to Hemfosa).
Oh well it seems the problem is that Hemfosa got jittery over Saab’s actual chances of survival. I hope the blame game is about to end and we shall see a solution falling together. Does anybody know why the EIB doesn’t allow Saab to draw the outstanding 29M from their facility?
I just wanted to thank David Mills for doing that which we would hope ALL true Saab enthusiasts would do in the midst of all this turmoil: Show your support for the brand (if you are financially capable, of course) by purchasing or leasing a NEW SAAB! Because, at the end of the day, SALES are the TRUE lifeblood of the company. If you wish to ‘invest’ but have concerns about the future of Saab, a lease might prove to be the best or ‘safest’ alternative. Success for Saab is and will be determined…..one vehicle sale ‘at a time’. THANK YOU, DAVID! …..Barry Lanier, Sales Manager, Saab of Memphis (and four-time Saab owner!)
Hello All,
Just washed my 2006 95 2.3T and put it to bed for the weekend. I would gladly purchase the 94X and am on speed dial with my dealer once it arrives. I like all of you, will do anything to show my support for the brand. Hopefully, a boatload of cash will arrive next week from one of VM lifelines. Then we can all look forward to the re-birth of our beloved and iconic brand. Chins Up from Chicago!