First a tip of the hat to our friends over at SAABLOG-In who covered the recent statements made by the representative of one of the largest unions among Saab’s workers.
According to various sources knowledgeable, there is no doubt about the approval by GM of Vladimir Antonov. We demand so aggressively that the government and GM put pressure on the EIB to allow Mr Antonov able to return to the capital of Saab.— Mr Stefan Löfven, Chairman of IF Metall
Meanwhile, the prime minister claims that it is left up to NDO to approve Antonov. A statement which is not met with favorable words from Carlström, the Swedish spokesperson for Antonov.
NDO approved Antonov eight weeks ago— Lars Carlström
TTela reports the prime minister will turn against anyone who wants to short-circuit the approval process of Antonov.
Personally I would like to see the PM fight as hard to keep jobs. I have never before seen a politician so keen to look a gift horse in the mouth (or other orifices of the body). In my opinion, the government should reimburse Saab for the costs of this delay. If they want to stay out of running an automobile manufacturer as they say, then they should not meddle in the ownership question in the first place.
171 thoughts on “GM approved Antonov a long time ago — Swedish government caught unaware”
I have to keep my statement from last day; Here politicians at least try not to get caught lying..
Do they think (politicians) than amnesia is a wide spread disease in Sweden??
I have it from Twitter, but this is the link to the press release from April 28 where the NDO approves Mr. Antonov.
looks like we have to write some emails to the PM to let him know the world is watching!
Does anybody has his email address?
Before this thread apeared I commented a bit of topic. I comment agian on the right topic….
Just sent an official request to the government asking them to enlightening me of how the prime minister can tell the press that “we gave NDO the mission to investigate mr. Antonov, and it is better if NDO do this investigation than the government” and at the same time, the NDO actually did accept mr. Antonov 2 months ago!
I’ve also requested all corresponding between the NDO and the government regarding Saab Automobile AB from 2011-01-01.
I’ve never ever considered voting red…I just don’t believe in them, but during the latest government reaction regarding SAAB, I think the government are toast.
We will loose big time as a country if we give up manufacturing.
I just wrote a message to mr. Reinfeldt. Not that it matters here, but just to have it said; I’m red at heart. Thats one thing I like about SU, we’re all different with different political preferences but when it comes to Saab we are truly united. That’s just beautiful.
I asked if he had been taking a nap for the last 2 month or so.
You are so right. SU and us, the saabers, are truly united!
FR got a letter from me as well now.
Very interesting and good initiative. Do you know if these are official acts yet and how long time the authorities have to reply according to the rules. Sweden is at the forefront on transparency but in this case, especially when it comes to Antonov, they are very mute and only use political rhetoric, which is ashame as it is people we are dealing with.
If this is true (GM has approved) and the NDO has approved, then all we’re waiting for is the EIB. Perhaps they will decide soon as they surely understand how dire Saabs condition is. It would look very bad for the EIB if they did nothing and Saab dies. They wouldn’t want the responsibility of causing the death of a major company such as Saab.
8 weeks ago the NDO approved Mr Antonov, do they really need that long?
No, I don’t think so.
There are those who say that the EIB is waiting for the Swedish government… (who in turn are apparently waiting for NDO and EIB)
This is just unbelievable farce…
I almost fell of my chair from disbelief…!
I thought a while back the EIB spokesperson said they were waiting on GM and the NDO. Are all three just making decisions and not talking to the others?
>GM approved of Antonov a long time ago
Should’t it be: GM approved Antonov a long time ago
There. Are you happy now? 😛
I am happy as soon as production starts and long time financing is secured 😉
From what I read in the article in TTela, he seems useless. He won’t even comment on weather they have planned for the worst or have given any thought to anything, wow, I would feel so confident in him protecting me and my family. I’m sorry, but if you’re going to comment on something that could have huge consequences for your country, please at LEAST know what the hell you’re talking about and if you’re not prepared to do anything then I at least think you owe it to your people to explain a REAL reason why and tell them how you think you will solve the unemployment issues that could follow. There is so much more on him then Muller as far as responsibility, he runs the country, Muller runs a company, why don’t I see people calling for his head like I do Mullers? This is ridiculous.
This guy makes Stephen Harper look good.
Hey, I only said «look» good…
In fairness to Harper or any politician just about anywhere else, I don’t think they would allow something like this to happen. Harper didn’t let it happen with GM and even though they had shut down a plant in Canada, I think I had read that they are producing there again. When government supports industry, industry supports economic growth through lots of different investment in R&D and a ton of tax dollars. Industry is good for any country and I think this guy for lack of a better word is an idiot for not seeing the big picture and what he stands to lose and even more so his lasting mark or what he will be remember by.
You are absolutly right.
Many years ago, Bernard Landry, then premier of Québec, when to the plate to persuade Paccar not to move it’s Québec factory to Mexico. They are still churning out Kenworth trucks.
Wow! Yes indeed I almost forgot about that! While Bernard Landry was not my most favourite Quebec leader, one thing the PQ cared about always was JOBS. It would be nice if other leaders thought the same way for once!!!
Vive Le Quebec!
I meant +9000 in reference to ‘No 9s’ comment, but everyone is entitled 🙂
I think he’s trying to cover all the bases (on all fields 🙂 ); being careful doing that as only a politician can be. Lately, things haven’t gone as smoothly as they wished for, for the government; after the latest election they don’t have a majority in the parliament.
I don’t know what they are thinking; the state is guaranteeing the loan no matter what happens; their NDO has done their thing, how can they then say that they wait on the EIB, if you guarantee something you don’t wait on the bank, what kind of message is that? You tell the bank, once again, based on the NDO report, “yes, we are still behind ’em”. But nope.
And thins GM, thing; for a long time they’ve been saying “waiting on GM and EIB”; well it seems like there were signals at the end of April, when the NDO report came, that there were only some details that concerned GM, but in general there were no problems. So, it seems like they have been repeating this mantra “GM and EIB” for nothing …
And of course, being Sweden, there are many people that thinks the government is doing the right thing, staying away from active support.
For people outside of Scandinavia, perplexed by all this – how some people over here can’t be proud of something Swedish, or at least act so that they support their own industry – I suggest that you read about the Jante Law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jante_Law
Sweden’s PM is part of a bigger group of world leaders who are committing treason in their respective nations. He does not have Sweden’s best interest in mind. Knowing that I am not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and I have to assume that he is trying to undermine Sweden’s industrial base. If I was a member of a Swedish Labor Union I would not like this PM one bit.
Sometimes you just can’t believe how ignorant the Swedish government is…
Red J, you’re so right!
Wow, sounds to me like the Swedish government is just about as incompetent as the US government.
US government wouldn’t have allowed it to get to this, they see the big picture of suppliers, jobs and loss of tax dollars.
It is bad enough I have to deal with the total nonsense here in Madison, Wisconsin and now I have to see the same with the Government in Stockholm.
This is bordering on Felony Stupidity. I am sorry I don’t have Google-trans in outgoing mode.
I actually wonder if Saab has a legal leg to stand on based on the mis managing and what seems like lying to block VA and other safety nets that have been presented. Saab doesn’t give up and has solutions every time the government or EIB steps in the way, I think the government and the EIB are running out of excuses and starting to look very suspicious in their actions.
Well, if there were any type of collusion between the EIB and the Swedish government: I would think that Saab would be able to press some form of conspiracy charges.
Now you’re getting warmer! 🙂
can the political opposition not ask questions to the government. It all looks so nice in Sweden Do something opposition!!!!
The German translation for the name Reinfeldt is “Reinfall” the english word is “huge failure” ;-(
And that’s you being very polite I bet. 😉
a. A total failure or disappointment.
b. One who fails to measure up to a standard, especially one who fails a course of training or study.
Hmmn… LOL 😀
Ah well, enough of bashing from me, here. I think we all stand head and shoulders above those that have been very vocal about Saab, in for example comments to news articles in Sweden; as one could guess most of the time they know next to nothing, mix facts with lies etc. And then we have to debunk the most outrageous lies. That’s the sad part of all this.
Well, in this case there have been some indications that the Swedish PM and notably the minister of finance, Anders Borg, would prefer to let Saab die. Robert Collin was quite clear in his blog the other day. (There was a link to the article from SU.)
WHY they have this opinion is a mystery, perhaps they believe that only companies that make a lot of profit should survive, or they have shares in competing enterprises?
+1, or maybe they just are sleeping? Here are thousand of workers at stake, and the Government is running without a fuse for their radar. Shame on them, this is a scandal! 🙁
But they’re prepared to help, 😀 if something bad happens …, but he will not say that that has happened, or is going to happen, since he will not speculate about something that hasn’t occurred. As I said, he’s covering all the bases, and also his a**; since he now refers to the Swedish NDO for further questions, “they will have to answer for their report”. No responsibility, whatsoever.
(I can understand that he says that he can’t comment on an individual’s economy, and must be careful; but anyhow, either the government trust the NDO and its report, or they don’t; then they have to say something, in all cases, the state is guaranteeing the loan, no matter what, so it seems like the NDO report is the governments answer, and it’s up to the EIB; but since everything has changed during this long process, the EIB now seems to be referring to rules about “healthy companies”, oh, how convenient.)
It is all part of the masterplan.
It must be a very stupid masterplan!
It’s like little children pointing at each other. No one takes responsibility and meanwhile they all look ridiculous.
GM = Yes
NOD = Yes
Government = Yes
EIB = No?
It’s the only institution that’s keeping it’s mouth shut. So… either there is a big misunderstanding or the EIB is hiding something for the public about Saab or Antonov.
Isn’t it more like:
GM = Yes, but…
NDO = Yes
Gov. = ???
EIB = ???
because all reports that I’ve seen today have said that GM’s but has been cleared up and if the gov is being truthful, I would say that based on the PM’s own words that they would be a yes now too. The only hurdle now would be the EIB, as long as everything reported is honest.
As retribution for their extreme negligence in this approval process, the Swedish government needs to fund with government money a 250 million euro global marketing and PR campaign to help repair Saab’s image and regain consumer confidence.
Your input at the end… great stuff sir.
And the swedish PM has even got an encrease in his salary.
Oboy – they should remember that it’s the little things that take down governments nowadays. Little things that push us unwashed masses over the edge – and create viral upheavals in this day of facebook, twitter, and yes, SU.
This might be the beginning of the end for the government …
How utterly bizarre
Didn’t GM approve Antonov “in principle” but there were a few “issues” that had to be taken care of.
My source says that GM’s demands have been met.
And what were those demands?
Good question and hopefully one that will be answered in due time.
Well, it almost seemed like you knew, since you brought them up again.
(I don’t, but I mentioned them above, #24, and your link showed it was at the time.)
Even if Rune knew, he wouldn’t blow up a deal at this stage of the game by revealing them.
My reply was to BoeBoe.
Mine more or less was too 😛 No worries Tripod.
I’m with Boe on this one. i believe those “conditions” are pretty tough ones – like buying GM out of their stake in Saab, for money that noone has. For me it’s pretty obviousl that this is why VM met with GM in the US last week, to try to make them change (i.e. soften) the conditions. The only one who has repetedly said that GM has cleared VA is Carlstrom. And I don’t believe that. The EIB has said in one of very few statements made on this matter, that they are waiting for a clearance from GM. Until they have it, they cannot approve VA because it would be a breach of the terms in the EIB loan agreement.
Well…I am still worried even if Mr. Antonov steps in. The money he wants to put in will probably not be enough. So let´s hope he has some more. 🙂
I don´t think that Saab have sold many cars in June eather, since no cars have been produced for some time. May wasn´t a very strong month either(even though we are still missing sales-figures from Hungary and Cyprous….a little strange by the way since June-figures will be here soon).
What I mean is that not much cash will flow in to the company from carsales in May and June by cars sold in markets where SAAB is present today(China not included)
May – 5
YTD – 9
2010 – 18
Thank´s Niklas…..more than I expected 🙂 Does anyone know about Hungary too….?
Sorry for my laziness 🙁
BTW, we are still missing a reliable source for the Hungarian figures.
It is allowed to be lazy in summertime 🙂 But, we have the hungarian sales-data from Jan-april. Does this mean that they ar not reliable…..? It is very interesting to follow the different markets from month to month I think.
I have been a keen visitor to this fantastic website!
This is however my first comment and it is going to be harsh towards the Swedish government!
I am the first to understand that the government do not want to run a car company, to risky politically, but I have never come a cross a government that completely lacks the will, and determination to do anything for their industry, and Saab in particular. As a Norwegian I am very surprised that they are willing to risk thousands of jobs, technology, and innovation that Saab actually represents, just for prestige reasons!
I think that the Swedish government’s agenda is that they rather see Saab go bankrupt now, so that the “problem” is gone… That’s the reason why Mr. Reinfeldt is not answering in codes when he is asked about Mr. Antonov!
I voted for Reinfeld (or rather, his party) in the 2006 and 2010 elections. In all fairness, the government has done a lot of good for this country since 2006, I don’t even want to think of the consequences had the other side won.. Greece, anyone?
That said, if mr Reinfeld and his cohorts decide to continue working on their entry into the “which gov’t has its head the farthest up its bum” contest, I shall have no option but to lay down my vote come the 2012 elections. That, or form my own party. In fact, I should probably do that, otherwise there won’t be a single party any sane person could vote for next time. 🙂
You already got my vote 😉
“… a lot of good for this country …”
In all fairness, I don’t think everyone agrees with that. 🙂 But let’s leave that part of politics.
I voted for Centerpartiet as a “thankyou” for Jöran Hägglund’s part in rescuing Saab.
But I will not vote for this farcial government anymore.
I have always worked in the producing part of the economy, and they seem to belittle that. I find it insulting.
I think I have to watch the movie “Catch-22” again tonight.
Maybe after that, the whole situation with Saab will become clear to me…..
Yeah, because now it makes about as much sense as if you’d merge Inception, 12 Monkeys and the Matrix together and try to watch the result while battling a severe hangover.
ROFLMAO @ Emil!!
And then add the scene where Pam sees Bobby coming out of the shower, it was all just a dream or was it???
I’m very dissapointed by Reinfeldt’s answer to the invitation of the IF Metall syndicate. Governements are supposed to assume their responsabilities and to support their industry when it’s in difficulties . It’s a shame .
Thank you for the link Rune
You can´t believe it ! Human behavior is that simple. Power and money ? One should dig a little deeper … 🙂
How foolish and shortsighted these Swedish politicians are. They can make policies that support their Saab (and other industries) without “running a car company”. If Sweden doesn’t get its act together, China is going to take EVERY industry from them and leave them holding nothing but unicorns, rainbows & windmills…also made in China.
SvD is trying gather people’s opinions about Saab.
Considering it was put up @ 10 this morning,….no comments!!
If you mean that it was put up here as SU, I’m sorry. I usually don’t miss such things. If you mean that that the link was old, I still think it’s a good one. If you mean that there are no comments on the page in question, it’s by design. It’s a closed form, not an open discussion. Hopefully that leads to less flaming and trolling.
I cannot see the point of publically asking a question, then making it a closed forum.
Just my though….
gunteman and terry9000k,
It’s not closed, if you scroll a little further down you will see the 1 comment that’s there now. That’s the comment that frustrated me when I read it. Maybe add a comment to dispute what the original comment was. Probably only 1 comment because like you nobody knew the comments were a little further down, almost like it’s hidden.
I think the point is to get more thoughtful responses, not just the same ol’ ranting comments.
judging by the one comment left there so far, even the people of Sweden don’t think the government should help. Do people only look at part of the picture? Is the public not made aware of how many other companies depend on Saab in Sweden? I remember when GM and Chrysler went through their bailouts and the media in the US was doing stories on suppliers and the impact of GM going bankrupt would have to the economy and suppliers and just how many businesses would be affected, it was unbelievable to see how many other companies would have gone broke. I understand GM is a giant, but the same happens even with the small players, look at the layoffs that have already happened and the overhead to run some of these companies that would have to look at downsizing. If the Swedish government and people look at Saab and think, “oh well, it won’t affect me” , you are all sorely mistaken and as far as the Jante Law, people will be laughing at you for letting yourself believe you are so special that you didn’t need industry to survive and industry will say “screw you, I’m out of here.” Sorry if that’s harsh, but I see it as reality, don’t forget, this could easily become two manufactures that leave, if parts become harder for Volvo to get and get on time in Sweden, why would they want to stay when their manufacturing costs become higher?
Not harsh to me, I agree.But some people, here, also believe, somehow, that Saab has had its opportunities to show the world how great the cars are. They don’t remember that it was “reborn” a year ago; they don’t care what happened during the GM era, Saab didn’t make it, that’s it. They don’t care about the details, why or what caused etc.
Re; Volvo to get and get on time in Sweden
I am sure Vovo’s 1st chinese plant buys much of the parts there & the planned 2nd plant will do the same.
How long will it be that ‘any’ Volvo’s assembled in Sweden, become kits imported from chins, just like the new MG (old Rover/MG sheds) assembled in Longbridge’ is..
I have a small business that honestly buys from good manufacturers in china. That’s the way life is now days, but Europe & the West will pay very dearly for this ‘oversite’ & Corporate greed in the not to distant future.
Our Childrens’, children will see a vaste difference of wealth movement in this world.
Just to clarify (i.e not to nitpick). It IS a closed form. The comment section below is just the standard SvD comment “module”, which has “nothing” to do with the survey.
gunteman, the comment that was left there was about the survey though. It seemed to me that it was part of the survey, I left a comment and now it says 2.
There are two forms. One in the main article area, powered by Google Docs (maybe blocked outside Sweden or killed by Google trans?), and one below, powered by Disqus (where your comment is). It’s the first one that is the actual survey. The other one should have been disabled, since there is no content to discus.
I hope you are able to use the survey form, since it can’t hurt to make the non-Swedish voices heard. A direct link to the form:
Now I see the comments….
gunteman, I tried to respond on that thread but it doesn’t work for me. On the one I responded to, it did show a comment before me and I looked at a few other stories on this site and they seemed to have a lot of comments in the same place. Hopefully someone sees these comments.
I thought that GM had approved Antonov ages ago as I remember reading it at SU. The Swedish government really has done a huge disservice to the people of Sweden and particularly those at Saab. They have been caught with their pants down lying and we now find Saab deeper in the you-know-what as a result. It’s a disgrace!! 🙁
Nobody deserves politicans like these. No wonder a lot of people mistrust these creatures.
I understand some of the posters anger over government actions, but as the same time I do take some small confort, if this report is true, that the actions of GM are not responible for the ” cash flow” problems of Saab. I hate to say this but I have found an undercurrent of anti-American, anti-GM, comments here at SU in the past from “certain” posters, I want to make sure that you understand I’m not talking about the leadership folks such as TimR and others. I think this attitude is not helpful and may have discouraged people here from helping Saab out more. I would hope this report will help end to this negative line of thought, after all we are all Saabers regardless of where we live.
I think an awful lot of us are getting hysterical here. It doesn’t make much of a difference what Reinfeldt says or perhaps what any politician says. To expect him to know, or particularly care about, the details of the approval process is unrealistic. There’s no doubt that VM and his team are monitoring the situation carefully. If VA was unconditionally approved by GM, they certainly know it, check it off their list, and make sure that whoever else that needs that approval knows about it. And approvals in principal are not necessarily approvals in fact that are required by the NDO or EIB. If there are details to clear up, I’m sure that VM et al are well aware of them and will provide any necessary materials to secure full approval and then make sure that the approval is lodged with the appropriate authorities.
Very well said hughw, it’s hard not to lose it a little when the leader of the country is quoted and leaves you thinking that he has no idea of what he is talking about. The big issue is the cost of passing the buck with Saab. Saab has suffered two shutdowns that have made it impossible to make money even though they have had a solution every time a roadblock has come up. I’m sure as you said VA and VM have the necessary materials to clear it up, I just hope that the powers to be will see the seriousness of what needs to happen and step aside to stop the bleeding.
Well, the ex-opel plant in Antwerp is still vacant. Maybe Saab should move over there…
I think they might be able to get a massive amount of aid from the governement, as the Flemish governement has put 500 million Euro’s on the table in an attempt to convince GM not to close the plant down.”Only” 2500 people were laid off there. At the same rate of 200000€ per person, the Swedish governement should put 800 million euro’s on the table… and we would be able to go a long way with that!!
My post above: Volvo to get and get on time in Sweden
Europe & the West should heed the ‘rapid’ on-slaught of the chinese. They already ‘own’ many countries debt in the world .
I’ll tell you all the problem. Every government in the Western World, from bottom to top, needs to be changed out. Here in the U.S. it is so bad that our so called president (obama) isn’t even entitled to hold the office per our Constitution, the highest law in our land. And that’s just the start of it. All politicians are completely bought. Treason runs rampant as the U.S. really is effectively under foreign control. Our borders are wide open and the original citizen stock of the nation is being replaced by “others”. (not a hateful comment, just a factual comment) We are so dumbed down over here due to all institutions, including our churches, being totally compromised. So what is happening to Saab does not surprise me one whit! Oh, ps, these are my opinions, but most who are informed these days will agree with me.
How is Obama not entitled to hold the office? Why don’t keep your tin-hat garbage off this page.
Most who are “informed” by trash radio and conspiracy theories will definitely agree with you Hugh. Before this line of comments gets out of hand, please please no more responses to this particular comment, ok everyone? I’m not into censoring/erasing comments so I’m leaving it up, but suffice it to say it pretty much violates our comment policy. Thanks. 🙂
With all due respect: Hugh may have been out-of-line for making an off-topic posting, but stating your (equally off-topic) opinion on talk radio and then effectively shutting down the conversation is equally uncalled for.
I’d have to agree….. not wanting to drag this out, but we do have a few dare i say, conservatives around here that do not subscribe to Hugh’s comment.
I check my political talk at SU’s door…. here we should all be comrades on the Saab team
dang, did i say comrades???… someone might say I’m a Communist 😛
Moving back to Saab…..
So, so, you mean to say that you’re a left-wing republican???
All my dreams…..out of the window…..
ROFL. Talk to an Native American lately? I think they had this same feeling about 1790.
I’m getting a mental picture of you, Hugh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dale_Gribble
Hateful comments like yours shoul be ignored, and are certainly out of place on a Saab enthusiasts’ blog. But since your username could be associated by some with me, I feel it’s my duty to answer. The most obvious answer is if you have feelings like this, keep them to yourself, or post them on some far right (really far right) website where they might be enjoyed by your brethren. That said whatever you feel about our president, and certainly there are many who do disagree with him on policy, is conspiracy theory crap parroted even by the paranoid and ill-adjusted haters and has been proven wrong again and again. But those that don’t want to be convinced will always find a way to smear the truth. So with that, I think the moderators should remove your post and ban you from this board.
I actually was shocked and thought it was you, sorry. I agree, remove.
Regarding your use of the cliche terms “paranoid”, “tin foil hat” and the new-to-me “ill-adjusted hater”…Hughw, please investigate the corporate ownership of all of the “mass media”. You will find, when you think critically, that the world is hearing only from a few sources of information. The consolidation of information is really frightening if you look into it. Same could be said about money and land in the US.
That is not to say that you cannot think critically. I have been with SU since 2006, and I have enjoyed your comments and your contributions. I just feel that you might be equally “parrot”ing (to use your term) what has been fed to you by Fox, Cnn, Msnbc, Abc, Nbc, Cbs, Pbs, etc… (assuming that you are American – total assumption on my part).
Shall we join hands and work to Save SAAB together? I just purchased some alloy wheel cleaner for my Turbo X SC today. This weekend they will get a thorough detail.
Yes, join hands….we’re all Saab-Huggers here!
From VA’s point of view it’s the Swed Gov and EIB that are the laggards:
vladantonov1975 Vladimir Antonov
@rnord then may be you and your friends will explain it to your government and eib?
And more recently:
vladantonov1975 Vladimir Antonov
I stated many times! We will get it done! One way or another! Griffin UP!
What a Prime Minister! I can not believe what this person says and writes, and I personally think that the only right thing, by people like this, how sad it is to write, is to ignore them for the full 101 percent or more!
The Swedish Government is Saabs real problem.
The Swedish PM hasn’t mentioned ONE positive word about Saab since the problems occured in 2008..
The Swedish Government is not doing anything until EIB does so. (GM and NDO seems to be clear with the Antonov issue)
The Swedish Minister of Finance Anders Borg is heading EIB (together with the other MoFs in Europe). He can give directives to act, for Saabs cause, but it seems he does the opposite.Read this piece from TTELA and consider.
In the downturn that followed the 2008 crash, our UK Labour Goverment took the attitude, they would only help some. VAUXHALL (GM) got a thumbs up,LDV got the thumbs down & all production is now in China…
Having an economy based on the service industry, may well work for the corporate model (ie; skim a few % off the top to make the profit) works OK, when there is much money washing around the world, but now look at it, when the money is gone…
Even in those hey days of the boom, jobs in the service industry were out-sourced to the like of India, etc, because EU labour is to dear in the EU…..
Whew…. no comment other than people are losing their minds….
As usual Swade’s post on insidesaab a few minutes ago calms the waters.
Me too, although I get linguistically annoyed by his use of ‘whilst’ instead of ‘while’. (I know it’s a personal style choice and not wrong at all)
Hughw – what postbare you referring to? I don’t seem to find it.
Jeff and others: Sorry if my comments weren’t well received as it was not my intention to be disruptive or off point. I only posted after some 80 plus folks had registered their comments, many with displeasure at the Swedish government’s actions/in actions. You can probably tell that I do focus on politics. Call it a hobby, if you will. And I’m a firm believer one can not separate politics from any aspect of our lives. The politicians control everything. And their agendas are often hidden and more often than not beneficial to the citizenry. And labels are dangerous as they are meant to separate us and not allow any unification. You can call me “hard right”, but my views were “normal” and mainstream not too many years ago. Our countries have made major changes and I for one think we are on a horribly wrong course. And finding the truth about any subject is not easy. It is on the internet, along with lots of garbage, if one knows where to look. It’s also on some radio, but not much. You might have labeled me as a Limbaugh, Hannity, type, but you would be 100% wrong. But here’s the dilemma for you: I feel strongly that politics has a strong role with what’s going on with Saab. Shouldn’t we talk about that. The Swedish government has an agenda. But what is it? Hope this was helpful!?
I wish we knew, I’m not sure if they would like to see Saab face going bankrupt and pick up the pieces as it’s been said Saab has more assets then debt. I truly don’t know what other agenda they could have if there is one.
As a previously conservative voter for 30 years (not anymore) I am very sorry to accknowledge this: The hidden agenda of the Swedish government is to use Saab to statue an example for other companies in trouble..The point is to show: There is no way the government is going to help you out of trouble with financial support. It’s a matter of them keeping to the hardcore pre-30’s crisis conservatism – the market rules without any temporary life-support.
At the same time the communist regime in China support their auto industry with billions and billions. Politics aren’t as simple as they used to be. Do I have to be a communist to be a believer in the power of free entrepreneurship?
OddJob, but don’t you also see some kind of antagonism toward Antonov? And that’s where some very interesting agendas could come into play. Agendas that are much larger than Saab. Saab is just caught in the middle.
Johan. Here’s the link to swade’s post
Okay, sort of on topic. Assuming the politics and financials could be worked out tomorrow (I know they probably won’t be, but hypothetically speaking), what’s the earliest possble delivery date for a 9-5 SC to the US? Assuming everything works out in the next week or two, does this delay mean January, 2012, May, next June? Originally, it was September. Now, “winter.”. Can anyone hazard a guess? Not sure I can wait much longer. I’m impressed with Saab’s resilience and keep hoping… And I really don’t like anything else.
LFNC – I don’t have an answer, but I LOVE your committment. And you taste in cars. The 9-5 SC is sex on wheels. Is that OK to say?
No problem here, might not want to market it that way, but it would certainly get my attention.
I’m the previous owner of a 2009 SAAB 9.3 XWD that traded it in for a 2011 Audi A4 (8 speed transmission)….however…I can’t believe that the Swedish government has not come to the rescue of SAAB??? I mean….the only reason I traded my SAAB in was the fear of massive depreciation and the company going bankrupt or out of business…..It’s sad…I was really looking forward to the new 2013 SAAB 9.3 eXWD….mild hybrid….very fuel efficient…220-240hp…Oh yeah…..and not common like BMWs….Poor baby SAAB….its sad….its a cool car. Good technology….kinda melancholy about the whole thing….
Audi’s are not common?
I didn’t know Audi got 8 speed already. 7spd DSG and multitronic (CVT) I know but not 8?
Yes…I was surprised too. Audi is now putting 8 speed automatic transmissions in their cars. I didn’t even realize they made 8 speeds….LOL. It’s kinda jerky sometimes. I would love to find out what kind of real gas mileage newer 2012 SAAB 9.3 XWD (220hp) Biopower would get. We still have not received any of the new 2012 SAABs yet here in the USA. Probably won’t now….with all the financial stuff and uncertainty.
I just don’t get why people come here or Saab Central to tell everyone how much they love(ed) their Saab but go on to talk about their new car by a competitor. Keep it to yourself.
Give the guy credit he said he’d be interested on a 2013 9-3. 🙂
He really didn’t “go on to talk about” his new car. He simply mentioned he had one. 98% of what he said is SAAB related and how he wants to come back. I see no problem with this.
Makes me wonder whether Saab got caught up in the typical red tape
of World Trade Org admission/Euro-Russia trade crap you need a dozen
international trade lawyers (at at least $1m/per annum just to explain)….
and even then you wouldn’t get a straight answer.
WHAT IS GOING ON HERE! The reason for EIB to deny Saabs requests last week was uncertainty regarding Saabs future profitability. ARE YOU KIDDING ME! They’ve stopped Saab from getting the finances sorted out two months ago and now they have the nerve to say the outlook for Saab prevents them from acting. I’d bet they also have some equity ratio or some other bullshit excuse. THIS IS INSANE!
Does anyone in the Swedish government have the skill set to use a calculator? How much revenue would be lost -over the next decade- if a company like Saab went under and how much will it cost to create jobs and pay benefits for all these people affected? What will all the service sector employees drive? Bicycles?
A complete loss of the auto industry will tip the trade surplus into a deficit in no time. Study it Mr. Borg.
Drove 400 miles with the product this company manufactured over seven years ago in Trollättan yesterday. Due to business had to drive a newer Japanese car with four times less milage on the clock for 5 miles and it was truly horrible compared to Saab. This is the business Sweden wants to lose completely? Most countries would be ready to kill to keep it.
Saabs problems post-GM are the same as a start-up has. A narrow lineup of products, negative cashflow in the beginning of operation and liquidity problems when sales finally start to pick up with improving product range and increasing marketing costs. CLASSIC! but its a hump all business face. Saab isn’t dying, its learning to walk again.
The gov fail to see/understand two things. They claim they won’t interfere with companies running their own show, but now that they’ve done so, what do they do? Take no ownership or responsibility of the matter.
No wonder businesses are saying ”-To hell with them, we’re leaving for the ‘free’ China”. The question at the end of the day is, who will pay for all the government in the good-ol-West when goods and soon all IT based services come from Asia? It will be a catastrophe left as a heritage for the future generations.
I’d say, time for the Swedish gov to wake up to the real world. Look what happened in Ireland two years back when the financial service sector melted after a debt boom. The country is on EU life support.
(I think I need to take a brake from Saab related news)
I just don’t get it. Reinfeldt is eager to help Greece with their finance crises even though Sweden is not a Euro country but he’s not willing to support his own country’s car industry when it comes to SAAB. Unbelievable! @TimR: the imperfect of the word “pay” is “paid”, not “payed” 😉
The guy obviously isn’t playing with a full deck. Nothing will change his mind. I reckon he asked VM for a free 9-5 and was knocked back. What is his obsession with Ovlov anyway, their cars are about as interesting as a Chevy.
VOLVO has always been a “national car brand of Sweden” and SAAB only a “bastard child”. If I remember correctly, Maud Olofsson visited VOLVO when it was sold to Geely. But did she visit SAAB when it was sold to Spyker?
Sadly I think that the government puts it trust to Volvo Cars that is going to hire 200 new engineers and more in the Torslanda factory. Therefore they dont give a sh*t about Saabs fate. Its a very nasty play by the government that in 10yrs from now going to see Volvo leave Sweden for China. Busted!
They seem to love VOLVO and loathe SAAB 🙁
Is there a way we can get some online petition to the prime minister? I am sure we can have a solid petition and build a good momentum behind it. I hope this helps.
The guy is obviously a complete idiot and he doesn’t care. Maybe people in Trollhattan aren’t right of centre enough. 🙁
Wow, this guys been a pain for a long time, Swade even tried to help him understand what was at stake in 2009.
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