Things are still progressing, and the fact that details of it are reaching the newspapers, means that reading the tea leaves is getting easier and more defined. =)
Today Di.se thinks that the great investor for the bridge loan could be a big European bank. Many may say that the European Banks have enough problems staying afloat, but maybe not.
After the jump you can find the Google version of the di.se article.
Major European bank could save Saab
There is a large European bank which Victor Muller is negotiating with about a bridging loan. Dagens Industry found out today.
On Tuesday told Peter Hallberg, CEO of Saab Dealers Association, that he had been told by Victor Muller that negotiations are under way with “a highly qualified and reputable financial institution” for a loan that could save Saab.
The agreement shall be in accordance with slips to be completed by the end of the week.
Now, sources of Dagens Industry sayย it will be with a large European bank, and that the securities Victor Muller has to leave is probably shares in the British company Saab Great Britain Ltd., or so-called alternative assets.
—
Update from Jeff:
This was posted from Bloomberg news a few minutes ago:
Saab Automobile…is close to securing a loan of about 1 billion kronor (US$157 million) to pay overdue salaries and avert a looming bankruptcy, three people familiar with the matter said.
The loan would be provided by one of the five biggest European banks, said one of the people, who declined to be identified because the talks are private. The loan will likely be announced as early as tomorrow, the person said.
They also reached Gunilla Gustavs for comment.
โWeโre working intensely to find financial solutions,โ Gunilla Gustavs, a Saab spokeswoman, said by phone today, declining to comment further.
—–
Other posts on this:
then it is maybe European Investment Bank… ๐ Good news!
Very good news indeed. I can’t think of a bank that gives high risk loans at the moment. Maybe the money will be replaced by Chinese money later when this has been approved. Otherwise this would be an extraordinary bank. We could all be smarter by tomorrow.
That sounds a lot better now, but it needs to be done on friday…
At the moment this is just speculation from DI, a newspaper that is good at printing unsubstantiated rumour on a daily basis. However if it is true then the champagne will be flowing this weekend! : )
let’s hope that the hangover will not be too hard to handle:-)
Yep, you are right – DI is just speculating and trying to put together untied ends of the rope.
Anyway – whom ever Saab is negotiating with should be someone working with financial things.. as I don’t think they are negotiating with a construction company or a food production company. And who are working with financial things in Europe – well – banks. So DI is showing a very high logical capacity here… (I hope you get the irony of this.. ๐ )
Either way it will be beer to commiserate or champagne to celebrate very soon.
Every time di.se reports good news about Saab, one of the trees in their garden dies. I do not recall di.se reporting good news without good cause before.
Lets hope they own a forest somewhere!
very strange indeed ๐
fingers crossed
griffin up !!!
Yet it’s rumour only. Let official events to come in or any breaking news what will happen until friday.
Bla Bla Bla, yet another loan maybe someday – who cares! Saab needs money now not another maybe statement these are getting tiresome.
SaabSouth,
this is not yet another loan, this is just another piece of the puzzle that started on the weekend.
piece 1
piece 2
Well…I don’t think that possible investors and money lenders are queueing up in front of the Trollhรคttan factory as we discuss on here, fighting for the place to be first in line to negotiate with VM and to generously hand out Euro bills driven by the humanitarian ideal to save Saab. If there is a financial institution that is willing to give a loan to Saab and the conditions are allright for both parties this is incredible good news. Close to a miracle nowadays. Another loan won’t bring Saab back on track but it might secure survival and a restart… Read more »
My local newspaper has spoken to the CEO of Saab’s dealership organization, and he confirms that something is in the works and will/should be ready this week… ๐
I’m sure Peter Hallberg wouldn’t have said that without being backed by serious information that there is something in progress
And what’s more he probably wouldn’t have called Tidningarnas Telegrambyrรฅ without VM asking him to do so.
Sadim,
I know you follow the news about Saab, and I know that you know that in the last days many things have been said about the Saab dealers supporting the brand or not. Isn’t it normal that the Swedish news agency (TT) calls the CEO of the Swedish Saab dealer organization to get an overview of the whole picture instead of asking every single dealer?
On Monday Peter Hallberg had a telcon with Muller and evidently got the picture explained to him. Is it not very much of a coincidence that a few hours following the telcon with Muller TT call Peter Hallberg to ask if he knows something?
TT is the single agency you call when you have a piece of news you want spread to the media. They don’t have journaists who sit calling people all day.
So this is a fact?
Do you ever doubt yourself and your assumption?
I quite often doubt my assumptions (before I print them) and sometimes I find my assumptions proven wrong. If so I will quite happily admit they were wrong. But regarding the TT issue here is what I think happened: On Monday TT put somone on calling Gunilla Gustavs to see how the salaries were doing. Gustavs had been briefed about the telcon Muller had with e g Peter Hallberg, and said to the TT person: “I have no news but if you call PH he might have a story for you.” And TT called him and got the story. It… Read more »
Sadim, if you really think that everybody concerned about Saab does exactly what VM tells them to do, and only what VM tells them to do, then I must ask: Who told you to write what you just wrote?
Well, since among Christians there is said to exist an Anti-Christ, I guess it must have been Anti-Saab himself ๐
So..you assume that Saab people are a Cult following the great Saab and high priest VM?
Boy, So wrong and yet so assured in your personal religion of anti Saab ๐
Khrisdk, I was joking. I am in no way anti SAAB. I support the brand and I nearly always support the underdog. BUT I am very critical of Muller and the way SAAB has been run the last 12-15 months.
As regards the cult issue, there is actually a slight culty fragrance to this site. But on the other hand – Why not?
Sadim, you seem to be eager to lower your credibility even more ๐ Do you really think people call TT, and not the other way around…
Of course they do. If TT want a statement they will go to the top – Muller or Geers. TT will never call around to all sorts of people and ask if they have any possible news about SAAB.
TT didn’t want a statement.
They wanted info that they could never get from the top
So they call around.
Sadim, that dependson the organisation. Peter Hallberg is CEO of Saabs Retailer Organization nad it is perfectly normal to call someone at the top of that organisation if you are interested in their view.
So, who tells you to write what you do?
That is it!!! Good way to bridge the short term issue. To get a bank to do this these days they must have really good confidence in the business plan.
….And be charging high fees and seeking a strong security – Saab GB is one of the few remaining assets of value, we are playing very high stakes here, butnI think, I hope, I pray it will be worth it :~)
In fairness, surely Saab GB is only an ‘asset’ for as long as Saab is in business selling cars? Its value is inextricably linked to that of the brand. Sure, Saab GB owns some assets itself (at least one dealership, I believe), but those assets are likely to be small in comparison to the overall financing required. Furthermore, clearly the costs of obtaining and liquidating whatever collateral is there would be decidedly non-trivial. So, either Saab will sell Saab GB (perhaps to VA, just to bring that name up again!), or the potential lender has some faith in the business… Read more »
Real estate? ๐
Maybe it’s the Lithuanian Bank Snoras, or Latvijas Krฤjbanka? Both are close to Antonov.
That’s a good thought, calling it a “bridging loan” could be a way of getting round the EIB’s problem with Antonov
As DI is speculating in a “big” European bank, I would say non of those two would fit in that category. Not compared to the really big banks that are present in Europe, such as RBS, DB or others I don’t even remember the name of right now.
Can someone please give me a reason why this “big European bank” has waited so long to invest? The company now hasn’t built a car in months, Saab AB have said that they are concerned about the brand name leaving Sweden, there are creditors queuing round the block, the bank account has just been emptied by the DEA (if I read the ttela report on that correctly there was 90000euros only left in them.), the staff haven’t been paid again, there is an investigation on going into directors payments, GM have stopped production of the 9-4X after building nearly 500… Read more »
Just a couple of small corrections:
The investigations into directors payments and management bonuses has been finished by NDO.
They fund nothing wrong
The emptied bank accounts were the Swedish ones
You have all right to wait until you see the money in Saabs accounts. That ‘s also what the rest of us are doing
It would be interesting to know just how much of Saab UK’s London property it owns, there could be quite a large lump of security in Saab City’s premises and other property owned by Saab UK, on the other hand it might all be mortgaged up to the hilt. Anyway it cannot be enough to secure the kind of money needed, if they manage 30 million Euro that would be a surprise.
gawdlpus,
where do you have the information about GM not producing more 9-4x?
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110822/RETAIL07/308229957/1265&plckCurrentPage=1
Just a quick point, it says that production is stopped due to a ‘model year change’, they haven’t said that they won’t be building anymore. I would be interested to know how that production is funded and if the payments are up to date.
gawdlpus: Asking questions is a good thing, but you keep leaping to conclusions based on well… nothing.
Compare what the article states:
with your statements:
and
Could you leave sensationalism to di.se and their kind please?
The article says that production of the car has stopped. If that is for a model change or because the bills haven’t been paid doesn’t matter, it states that the production line has stopped. I also said that they haven’t denied they might be re-starting production.
Those are facts not sensationalism.
Either way the sales figures against the number of cars still in stock are not encouraging.
gawdlpus, the article states it is due to model changes.
That timing, incidentally, coincides with the transition to MY12.
In addition, the article then clearly states that the 9-4x is back on the production schedule mid-September.
I am not sure how much clearer it could be.
gwadlpus,
thank you.
I can’t read every single article on Saab, and any hint on information is welcome, preferably by e-mail. ๐
Rune, And I don’t how much clearer I can make my replies. If you actually can be bothered to read both of them, you will see that I say it might be for model year changes. I also do not say its because they have totally decided to stop production. I say that production has stopped. If it re-starts then great but then what are they going to do with the 500 that the they have not sold of the MY11 model? These are not cars they have sold which have not been shipped to dealers, 40 is roughly the… Read more »
gawdlpus,
at that point about 300 cars had not been delivered to the dealers, and with all fairness, 17 sold in July, 21 in the first half of August, I see an increase of sales.:-)
gawdlpus, you were spreading FUD. Unintentionally, maybe, but FUD all the same.
The article states GM will start production mid-September, which you spin to “they havenโt said that they wonโt be building anymore”. Technically true, but it leaves the reader with doubt that they would not have had they read the article you were referring to. There is a lot of stuff GM (or anyone else for that matter) haven’t said. I just think it is better to focus on the things they have actually said.
The current situation is serious. No doubt about that.
gawdlpus August 31, 2011 at 12:23: “And I donโt how much clearer I can make my replies. If you actually can be bothered to read both of them, you will see that I say it might be for model year changes.” gawdlpus, that wasn’t what you said in your first comment. You stacked one argument after the other (thatโs typical for the Saab bashers), and mentioned the 9-4x in the same sentence as the real estate. You mentioned the production of the 9-4X as if it was something fishy going on, but when Red J and Rune questioned you, you… Read more »
I think we should remember that ‘gwadlpus’ is to my understanding a salesman of an other car brand and I’m not sure it’s such a good idea to have someone vent their frustration about VM or Saab on SU’s pages every other day…
Shouldn’t this place be more like a safe haven for those who want Saab to get things going again?
gawdlpus, there is nothing in the article that infers that production would have been stopped. A model year change is not a production stop no matter how much you like it to be. The plant in Mexico had a 4 week break planned in from the beginning so this is nothing new or bad and it does not smell of end of days. it states that the production line has stopped. I also said that they havenโt denied they might be re-starting production. You state that this is fact based on the article, but the article doesn’t say that does… Read more »
Canada is also yelling: Me too!!!
I thought they were selling like hot cakes in Canada ๐
Hey … we’re doing our part to decrease the number of 9-4Xs still unsold … we’re buying a loaded Moreland Bronze one tomorrow. It’ll be the first 9-4X sold by the Memphis SAAB dealership.
Now I need to find a good home for our TurboX … can’t bear to trade it in though.
@Grumpy,
they will, when they get some MY 12.
gawdlplus: And speaking of timing, wasnโt it remarkable that two cars came down the production line yesterday? Its almost as if one of the loans that Muller has taken out was guaranteed on the basis that the line would be working on the 29th. โThere you go, two cars came down the line, you canโt foreclose,โ I did think something similar. And, to be honest, if he had enough bits and bobs around to do this, and if he was bright enough to negotiate a deal which allowed just 2 cars to be sufficient to count as “production” then I… Read more »
I understand you are worried – what I don’t understand is why you speculate so much on your own. No one of us have the “big picture” that is needed to understand everything of what is going on. Yes, GM have halted the current production of the 9-4x because MY-change – why then throw that into the rest of the current situation, when that is a stopped that is planned, and we don’t know all the details. For me – that is a good thing not to put in the big picture situation then. I am worried just as you,… Read more »
Is it possible for any company to prove that … investment will show a profit ? Agree with all the follow-up comments about the 9-4X stop in production. It was mentioned in the same breath as the production stop at Trollhattan (along with another bunch of negative issues). Put into that context it’s clear the intention is to paint this as another negative issue facing Saab whereas it would appear to be nothing of the sort. If production doesn’t restart in mid-September as we’ve been told then it would be reasonable to consider a link to slow sales but drawing… Read more »
Gawdlpus, Fun to read what you write. ๐
It’s fun because it’s like someon jumping around between clouds trying to put togehter something through intense speculations of different things.
I like the image that analogy generates ๐ Am I allowed to introduce roving Saab Gripens with FUD-seeking missiles into it?
I still want that 2012/2013 9-3 or 9-5 Aero 2.0T, the small subtle changes to the 9-3 have made it far more appealing and I want one…..
Of course VA owns a couple of European banks doesn’t he? Surely it must be one of his as he at least has motivations beyond pure finance (I think?) :/
VA owns banks – yes.
But this post is relating to DI.se and something that DI is saying. I do not know if DI would call any of VA’s banks for “big” in the European context.
I might disagree as most banks operating in Europe are actually American or Asian owned. The actual European- owned banks tend to be smaller, so VA’s could be amongst the larger ‘European’ banks IMHO? Just a thought, I struggle to see any other bank lending under the circumstances…..
The top 10 of largest banks in the world is still dominated by European banks. BNP Paribas, Deutsche Bank, Credit Agricole, Barclays and RBS are just a few of the largest European banks.
Banks owned by VA are among the smaller “local” banks.
Looking forward to ear some good news soon ๐
Obviously I mean hear ๐
Scepticism is good thing, if you can afford it.
For SAAB, it is now or never – there were nine lives, and I think, it is number nine now.
Still, I think SAAB can make it – against all odds, that is!
Let’s hope the line is going to roll again.
For Frankfurt, I wish there will be cars striped with:
WE MOVED YOUR MIND. DIDNยด T WE?
๐
๐
welshwizard645…. I hope you will come and place your order with me keeping the business Welsh and supporting a family run Saab dealer in these difficult times!
My dream today would be that they present a finance package and pay the salary! But also at the same time present a new CEO and a new CFO! Hope my dream will come true today!! ๐
Every time my thoughts calcify with frustration and boredom over this story (imagine what it’s like for the workers), a new dramatic development stuns my senses. At the end of it all VM will certainly have emerged as compelling a character as Ferdinand Piech and John De Lorean in the annals of automotive history. But let’s hope, when all’s said and done, he ranks closer to the former ๐ Whether or not the Saab brand survives, and I’m sure it will even if SWAN does not, the moment some number-crunching numpty decides to kill off Saab design and production in… Read more »
.
Re: Saab GB.
Saab GB were one of the original financiers/backers of the GM buy out, with 24million ยฃ’s if I remember rightly.
Indeed.
Spyker Cars bought Saab GB for ยฃ1 from GM and after that Saab GB gave/lend $24 to Spyker so they could pay for the purchase of Saab Automobile AB.
Hmm, so some value but at a level to pay a month’s salaries and a few bills, not really a bridging loan of the value we need to see……let’s see what news the week brings us.
Bloomberg:
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20110831/business/708319914/
Ouch, not nearly as much as I would hope… This is a bridging to the bridging, I would think. Certainly I’m praying this is not THE DEAL we all are hoping for…
Agreed, I’m sure this is just a step to keep things going while THE dealis being sorted in the background. All of this hinges on the larger Chinese deal progressing – who in Saab has time and availability to keep the epressure on that deal to ensure it doesn’t stall or delay while this (these) smaller ‘fixes’ are sorted out?
Perhaps not as much as you hoped, but a HUGE shot in the arm, if true. By my calculations, this amount – which is Kr 1bn, would pay off all of the suppliers and pay the wages, unless I’ve missed something? Now, I sincerely hope that Saab have persuaded all (or enough) suppliers that, if they really could get everything sorted by September (bills paid), then the suppliers would re-start supply. It would be logical – it would be the sort of thing one would throw into negotiations at the early stages. Not by any means does this mean that… Read more »
Good news indeed. I hope it is announced tomorrow.
Sorry, but this is peanuts! This is nothing that SAAB needs today. In this case the agony will be continued! The workers will be payed for not working, the production will not be started, the dealers will not have anything to sell. All cards are now on Chinese getting the necessary aprovements in October. Which is, as far as I understand, far from being definite.
But this is a rumor like any other. Let’s wait for the official information.
Well the 6-month report will be made public in just over an hour, so we will soon know.
Oh man! You better call Saab and tell them!
And tell them what?
“And tell them what?”
turbokalle’s comment was to Iggy, and not you, Sadim. Perhaps you should let Iggy reply.
It’s ridiculous reading people’s comments here there, left and right, about what Saab needs. As if the people at Saab doesnโt know. WTF is the matter; do please call Saab and tell them it’s not enough. Or wait and see.
Sorry. I guess I put my foot in it… ๐
This is a reply to turbokalle (if the comment was on me): As I mentioned this is just one of the rumors and personally I hope it is not true. I gave my reasons why I think it would not be a good solution and I think that everybody can give their own opinion. We are all nervous waiting for the deal, but it is not a reason to attack people here, since, I think we all want good for SAAB. Tripod: As I said in the last sentence “wait for the official info” so we agree here! Also I… Read more »
Interesting.
Regarding previous comments here that it might be a VA-connected bank – well I think we can throw any like that behind us. VA’s banks are not among the five largest in Europe.
I agree, and just to show I can say one of my previous assumptions was wrong I will say: I wis wrang…. Sorry… I ws Wrung….. Sorry I wer Wring…… Ah sod it.. You all know what I mean..
You can do it Sadim! ๐ Sometimes it’s a good idea not to make too many assumptions, eh?
๐
Oh.. I know what you need to be able to say that.
You need a nice comfy ride in a 9-5 Aero to a nice restaurant, followed by a nice dinner and as a final touch – you just need a big hug!
THEN you will be able to say what you can’t say yet.. ๐
Actually amazing if this is correct – can’tr wait to see what the collateral was on that loan – Saab GB + what? =$157m – is VM or VA putting up non-Saab assets or personal guarantees?
So let`s pray the 1st Oct is the D day for Saab. Why should`t we cheers then ๐ Keep calm and things cloud be better.