GM: No.

That’s the news in from pretty much everywhere at this point, Swedish Radio, TTela, and directly from Victor. Sorry if this is short as I’m writing this post from a phone.

Here’s what we know:

  • NSC was contacted to see if they would still be part of a share agreement that GM is comfortable with, all indications are that they’re done.
  • Multiple sources tell us that Youngman is trying to set up a deal where they take convertible preference shares and are allowed to inject liquidity into Saab for a period of time until Saab can be GM-IP free. It might look something like the current GM shares.

What happens next is anyone’s guess. This deal went from being manageable to insane, and we’re now in very murky waters. I’m not optimistic, but until Victor gives up trying, Saab lives another day. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

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Polle
Member

There has to be a movie company willing to invest some millions into saab in return for the movierights to this saga. Lets say enough for the wages… it will be the thriller of the century!

amigabuzz
Member

Well we did have Russel Crow sporting around in the movie State of Play ala SAAB 9000 circa 1990 model…maybe he car reprise the role as Victor Muller fighting against GM. Another issue brewing in the US is the shrinking dealership base to sell the cars…one of the big dealerships in South Florida..switched over to Buick already …as car sales were dismal for the 9-5. When I inquired price was off base against the Infiniti M35 ..

http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_228417-SAAB-900-1990.html

Peter, Sweden
Member

Is it by the way correct that ownership changes below 20% doesn’t need any permission what so ever, or is that something that’s been misunderstood? Could, if correct, YM step in as 19.9% owner while the Chinese bank could be an investor?

And Lundin, what you say is so true: a deal could be made within a weekend if ALL parties involved would care equally much :/

jond
Member

Perhaps it is time for SweGov to take control. Saab needs transitional finance to develop its own IP. They know that prospective buyers exist for the longer term in China and possibly elsewhere and it is doubtful that the cost of keeping the plates spinning will exceed what they will suffer in terms in unemployment benefits if reconstruction ends. They could try to make a deal with GM that will allow the licenses to support continuity of production, but if GM are still unwilling to play ball then they should simply acquire the assets from the receiver and effectively wipe… Read more »

Dan P
Member

It does sound like a fine solution – SweGov takes a large stake, then allow SWAN or SAAB to buy back once things are running (and after the stock, all being well, goes up..). It is a risk financially and politically, and I’m sure a lot of Swede’s could care less about Saab, but it would be a fantastic gesture and show of faith in homeland industry for the government to step in and help, for what is really not a fortune. It will be a tragedy if they go under. The product line was looking fantastic, and I’m finally… Read more »

liftarn
Member

It’s not going to happen with the current government. They are fundamentalists.

Darryl
Member

Oh I so want to find a new way for a manufacture to exsist and completely revamp the manufacture/dealer relationship and communication interchange. Funny, for me with all the bad news…I just keep thinking if Saab dies, how can I find a way for Saab to continue on. Its really confusing. How can they live if they pass? So strange… Anyway, I feel Saab to an extent got caught in the “GM” way of doing business…and its not just GM….its all Manufactures right now to different extents…. what I mean is I think Victor has a vision, like mine, which… Read more »

Lonnie
Member

Unfortunately it just seems like everything is going the other way. Toasters and soulless boxes built in the hundreds of thousands by robots and sold by loudmouths who have to hold high volume low margin sales numbers.

And no lack of passionless people to buy them.

Look how many Hyundais and Kias there are now.

I need a drink.

74StingSaab
Member

sad.

Donald Munro
Member

Don’t lose heart and please don’t give up Victor. From a family in Scotland that would haven’t have been here now if it wasn’t for SAAB!
FREEDOM!!!

Angelo V.
Member

I read this on the web “GM rejects deal. Saab is one step closer to liquidation.” Okay, fine. That puts me one step closer to crossing General Motors off my list of potential vehicle purchases FOREVER (and pleading with everyone I know and everyone I DON’T know) to do the same. Ironically, I own 3 GMs now and GM has been my vehicle of choice mosy of my life. If they could manage to get past their insecurities and sign off on this, in all seriousness, I’d consider GM in the future. I can’t in good faith do that if… Read more »

jim
Member

Essentially, Saab is still a GM division. Legally it is not separable from GM. Therefore, Saab’s status is a statement on GM’s business acumen. It reflects on their skills as businessmen. Today’s result reflects GM leaders’ level of passion and commitment to their occupation. I guess, as people, they do not have any pride as men or women.

Eagle63
Member

I’m so glad I traded in my OG GM-era 9-5 for a wonderful 9000 2.3T; those were the glory-days of Saab. There is still nothing like it in its class….

DreamChaser
Member

Indeed; Saab lost its own identity (or ‘soul’) when they started producing GM products.
The OG 9-5 was a fine car, the early models kind of a bridge between the ‘true’ Saab and the GM era. Although later models of the 9-5 (and 9-3) were ‘uglified’ with GM switch gear and radios, eliminating the unique ‘Saab-cockpit-feel’ that the good ol’ 9000 had…

VikingAir
Member

Very true indeed!
Even the new 9-5 is in essence the best Opel Isignia ever built; one of the best GM products ever,
but not a true Saab…

JB
Member

there are FUGM t-Shirts avail through zazzle.com w/swedish crown logo

Saabim
Member

Hi boys we need your help support from SU. Do you start tha campaign? The decided theme is easy: SAVE SAAB!

Rally Convoy

Something is wrong with GM there, we should act! VM need our support. Ofcourse your decission.

Nikola
Member

I don’t think everybody should just bash GM. If it wouldn’t be for GM, SAAB would be dead 20 years ago, had everybody forgotten that? It started pretty well, 9400 9-3 was a way better car then classic 900 (don’t beat me up for that, I work on SAABs for living, I am a SAAB technician, I know SAABs and love them.). 9-5 was way better and reiable then 9000. We had customers that spent over 35000 – yes 35 thousands USD on 9000 repairs. Nothing like that on 9-5 even high mileage ones. Of course it shows how much… Read more »

Thylmuc
Member

Interesting insights regarding quality, and I concur with you on GM’s role in saving Saab, but I note that evidently, since 2006, Sweden has a conservative government. And I am pretty sure that the former social-democratic government would have supported the workers at Saab. Not interferring with the economics/companies is a typical approach of capitalism, not socialism.

Nikola
Member

If you read my post again, that was exactly I was trying to tell- It is amasing that “Capitalist US cares about auto industy and saving jobs in US. Socialist Sweden doesn’t give a flying F$$$$$k about auto industry and jobs in Sweden”. So typical approach did not work that time. And Swedish government can call itself conservative but it still has strong socialist/communist aroma. I know socialism very good, I came from certain country…

Thylmuc
Member

I got more of the impression that the new government tries to be “hardliner” capitalistic, to differentiate from the former government. But maybe I am too much of an outsider in this respect, to judge.

talladegan
Member

“When asked about GM’s rejection, Swedish Automobile Chief Executive Victor Muller said in a text message, “There is always Plan B.” He said it was too early to provide details.”

From http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/06/gm-saab-idUSN1E7B50LC20111206

talladegan
Member

I can’t believe I came home from work at midnight to this ballbreaking news from Government Morons. Unreal.

Saabim
Member

I forgot this article: Read carefully: About Saab. At least GM reports net income of $1.7B for Q3. Do somebody explain how it could be Saab dangerous competitor for this shark?? Something is very wrong and wrong there…..

100%Saab
Member

I think I’m just going to wait and read Swade”s book.

Just a thought.

74StingSaab
Member

+1…. I’d even front some cash just so he would write one!

SaabKen
Member

I feel kinda ………. sick.

Victor, please don’t give up. We’re still behind you.

Nulla tenaci invia est via !

kochje
Member

+1
I feel like you; sick.

derek
Member

Saab is dead. I am so sorry to conclude this after having Saabs for almost 30 years.

I can see only one conceivable chance at success. Youngman pays a whole lot, essentially the price of 100% but is willing to accept only 19.9% holdings. Maybe for them to agree on it, they could also inject money into a new company, of which they’ll own much of it. It could be called “Swedish Auto Development Company”, which would develop future models with Saab.

Nikola
Member

I agree derek. RIP SAAB. I am sorry to say that after years of fixing SAABs. Remember different auto industry experts saying back in 2009 right after Spyker takeover that Spyker does not have enough money or experteese to run SAAB and that SAAB won’t make it past 2012. Sadly it looks like they knew what they were talking about an they were right. Hey Spyker itself never made money, only lost monet every year even before aquiring SAAB. Thank you VM from the depth of my heart for trying to save SAAB. Sorry you did not have enough to… Read more »

Nikola
Member

sorry for numerous tipos, I am tired after day at work (fixing SAABs) and it is late night in US.

Angelo V.
Member

Hey Youngman: Forget the current GM garbage. Quite frankly, a seriously updated (for safety and emissions) 1960s era Saab 96 and more seriously, a mildly updated 1980s era Saab 900 would sell more units annually than could manufactured. I would buy a “new” 1980s era 900 over anything Saab or Government Motors sells today. And a fresh 96 would run circles around the Beetle and Mini (and Fiat 500) for practicality and uniqueness. That tooling must be somewhere!

Nikola
Member

wake up dude! 1980s 900! Those only did not leak when they had no fluids in them!! Lower control arms that would break off if you put 900 in reverse, turn stereeng wheel and give it a little gas. If you look up sales, the best selling SAAB is frankly 9440 9-3ss (2003 and up). Grow up we are not in 1980 anymore! No offense. Just because couple hundred people are stuck with 1980s 900 does not mean it is going to sell. If you look closely mini and Fiat 500 have very little in common with originals.

Allan B
Member

Hear, hear, Nikola.

beren
Member

Ugh – tough blow for all the workers and families. Sad that the company is killed and does not die on its own.

Paul Johannessen
Member

This is a shame, but I wonder, the liquidation goes through, and then what happens with the next model 9-3? If the design and engineering and platform exists, can that technology be bought up by another company and released as a new car? GM doesn’t actually own any of it right? But Victor still owns Spyker does he not? I no nothing of the complexities of this, but if the car is already a blueprint with a large amount of engineering already invested into it, then it could still come to market right, merely under another name?

Sue Esponte
Member

You can’t do anything without the IP. Most of Saab’s IP is actually licensed from GM. That which Saab owns (which is probably very little) is highly reliant on 3rd party technology (GM, BMW, etc.) that cost a lot of money. You can’t do anything without money and that is something Saab has none of. This whole thing is about money. Saab could possess a formula to new technology that will save the world but if nobody gives them the money they need to put it into production, then you’re left with a great idea that’s locked away in a… Read more »

mnztr
Member

I wonder if the final plan may be as follows. Youngman buys SAAB for about 20M. All current SAAB models with GM IP are GONE… Youngman closes SAAB factory and keeps R&D with the plan to relaunch with the new 9-3…. 2 years from now the SAAB 9-3 Phoenix Edition is launched.

Thylmuc
Member

After bancruptcy, that would probably be the best plan. Frustrating though. And costly. I am pretty sure that this could be sped up if more money is injected. So, maybe Saab could restart production at the end of 2012 with the new 9-3, as originally planned.

Maybe, the 9-5 could be modified to get rid of the GM IP. For example by using Fiat or BMW engines, and converting the electrical system to Phoenix. No idea how much that would cost.

OH
Member

Vm YM worked all night:

“A source familiar with the negotiations said to Di that the new plan means that Youngman injects billions – without be linked to any ownership, and thus get around GM’s veto.”

Pedro
Member

They would get de facto control over how the company is run (whoever throws in the money calls the shots – period), and that access to GM-owned IP seems to be at the core of GM’s issue with this deal… At least that’s how I am reading things.

Coke is it
Guest

GM’s no is a big Fuck You to the Swedish government. GM was upset with Maud and swegov when they said that Saab is GM’s problem not swegov’s problem. This is their revenge.

mnztr
Member

I suppose they could have an unlimited “option to buy swan” in perpetuity that is assignable for 100M that can be executed at their leisure, As financier they can also demand seats on the board as part of the financing covenant, and this call opinion could be held by a European holding company owned by Youngman….hmmm this could work!!!

Mark
Member

Will GM be happy with any plan? I still believe Saab will survive, but with GM still pulling strings it’s really difficult.

Niklas G
Guest

Feels like GM won’t approve anything that could help Saab recover enough to sell cars in China. So perhaps the only way to go is some kind of deal with Youngman (and others) to invest money now for Saab to replace everything GM (by components from other manufacturers or by developing their own) at least in the Phoenix platform, and from there to wonwership once it can be done without having for GM to like it (which they never will). Must have been quite tough for VM when others took over and wasted weeks on trying to push through a… Read more »

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