SvD.se came up with news that I already predicted in my post yesterday: GM will not license their IP to any new buyer:
– We are not in discussions with anyone about Saab and we will not license the technology to
someany buyers, says James Cain.But there may be an opening. When SvD Business asks James Cain sure that GM’s license also applies to the current 9-3 model, which in summer fill ten years, he becomes uncertain.
– I can not confirm that it is also the 9-3 model in the same way as 9-5 model.
Looks like he was not as well prepared as those who asked that last question…
We already had a big discussion here if the 9-3 would be enough to restart Saab until a new model range arrives. Now it is official that GM remains in its position. No matter who asks. They see Saab as a threat, a danger for their own brands, which is annoying and charming at the same time.
But this is not the end. At least Youngman have known about this before and tailored their plans accordingly. From everything I know the 9-3 is not GM IP in itself. And even if GM says they won’t license technology it still does not mean that they won’t sell parts to Saab. If they can’t kill Saab, it may be in the best interest of their shareholders to make some money of that, right?
Exactly. And what’s the big news here? The media in Sweden blast this as a huge new setback, but that GM wouldn’t license the 9-5 and 9-4X feels like yesterdays news.
You are right. Guess everyone knew that GM would say know to the modern cars.
Go get a NG 9-5 while they last… they are packed with high tech IP that to some extent has been developed in Trollhättan.
We wish the owners of the Buick LaCrosse, Cadillac XTS, Opel Insignia all great car experiences with the SAAB technologies inside their cars.
“Buick LaCrosse, Cadillac XTS, Opel Insignia all great car experiences with the SAAB technologies inside their cars.”
And I can almost guarantee that the next generation LaCrosse, XTS and Insignia will be worse than the present since they will be messed up by incompetent GM developers without SAAB developers there to guide them 🙂
+1 No doubt, those GM cars are the result of Saab. GM is scared of a new Saab success with out them!
It’s Important for the negations process with the receivers. A bidder must show how to run Saab with the current Saab 93.
So Brightwells announcement was only a disturber in the YM negoatin.
“A bidder must show how to run Saab with the current Saab 93.”
Actually they don´t. The one with the biggest bid will get to buy “Saab” regardless of what their plans are. If the buyer just want to torch the whole thing it´s perfectly “OK”. The only goal in a bankruptcy is to get as much money as possibe. Sad but true.
I still think the wishes of the biggest creditors count for something. NDO says they want Saab to find a new owner who can ensure continued production. CLEPA expresses similar thoughts.
But time is running out. The bidders will find it more difficult to succeed the more time passes. Thus the value ought to drop as well. A generous bid now is worth more than three potential bids three months from now.
“whishes” and “must” are different things…
So GM won’t allow their “cars…9-5, 9-4” to survive and at the same time will not uphold the warranty on 2010+ cars. What a bunch of losers.
Honestly, I believe Saab, in which form it may ever restart, should get entirely separated from GM. GM has been proven not to be a trustful partner many times. Just looks what is happening with Opel! A much better choice would be to ask Magna or some car manufacturer how might like the idea to collaborate with Saab (e.g. Subaru, that had done so before or Mitsubishi as They may need a partner) for future collaboration. PLEASE stop considering GM as partner in any instance – it was and always will be a big mistake !!
agree: +1
FEEL FREE TO EXPRESS YOUR EMOTIONS.
WORDS ARE NOT ENOUGH TO EXPRESS WHAT I FEEL TOWARDS gm.
If this is the case then i promise I will order a 9-3 SC instead of the new 9-5 SC just to get a reborn Saab going if Youngman can complete the transaction.
I will buy the 9-3 even if it’s not the car I want since it is not up to par with the current competition (the 9-3 is a good car but everyone must face the fact that it is an old car by now).
Removed sentence*** by EDITOR
Sorry for the language… or wait, I’m not sorry for that 🙂
Thanks EDITOR, good move!
Understand you Cokeisit, but please try to stay a gentleman :-/
I miss the time one could use the f-word freely on the internet. Is it copyrighted by GM now? 😉
Hahahahahahaha 😀
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!…
Best comment ever…
You know.. If they haven´t already, I´m sure they will try….
My thoughts are these: Let us wait for someone to buy the factory. Then we start seizing GM’s facebook page again, and we start arranging convoys to GM’s HQ.
I was not involved in the anti-GM protests a few months ago, but now that the cards are all on the table, I see things a little differently. Let us make sure it will be in GM’s shareholders best interest to continue the 9-5 license. GM’s breach of contract in the middle of December shall not go unnoticed.
I agree. GM must be put under pressure. Should have been done first thing when they decided to stop the Youngman deal.
This just confirms my trust in Youngman contra Brightwell. Youngman has done their homework.
Brightwell are just vultures!
Oh, I was obviously number 2 on this conclusion 🙂 .
Yeah, I get that you are suspicious, but calling them ‘vultures’ qualifies as libel.
I still think you are only seeing a little piece of the puzzle (goes for me as well). It surprises me how quick you are to judge. (and despite the amounts of word you expended in your reply, you fail to be specific)
Just tone it down a little, alright?
One message; get rid of the biggest auto car manufacturer in the world; GM.
They did sell 9.03 million cars last year and do not want to give anyone else a license anymore.
Thank god; at least there will be other cars on the planet that do not all work with the technology of the biggest car manufacturer in the world.
Saabb was and should be unique; so get rid of GM and let Saab go his own way, or if needed work with companies with a normal business ethic.
Agree. And if the worst happens I will never ever buy a GM product even it is a cupholder or a pen.
Saab will make it hopefully 😀
I won’t buy GM products anymore, even if Saab will be alive i won’t!! NEVER!!!!
Well this was an easy one already 2 years ago. I don’t see any reason to buy anything from GM, now or later.
+1
Never EVER!!!
I started hating GM already in early 2009, way ahead before Saab’s problems when they killed Pontiac!!
Here in the UK they are not doing so well, i’d say Ford have the edge now and when I think about who actually drives a Vauxhall/Opel I honestly can think of no-one I know-my constant bitching about GMAC’s sub prime lending issues or the fact that if you see a car with its headlight out it’ll be an Astra, and of course how they tried to kill Saab (twice) must have worked. I really hope the intelligent Chinese get a sense of GM/SAIC as compared with the potential of Youngman.
Youngman seems to have understood this already. I do not trust Brightwell anymore since they have stated that they have had good contacts with GM, not true… hmmm…
Youngman FTW!
Rachel up!
GRIFFIN UP,RACHEL UP!!! GO SAAB GOOO !!!
Youngman knows how to do it, they have the experience 😀
Youngman UP
Rachel UP
Dont expect anything like that from our government. They are occupied with selling out all our common tax-payed assets here…
Then they’d rather have the unemployment they get from not being assertive.
I doubt GM would be enormously impressed by the Swedish government ‘getting tough’ wih them, even if SweGov would be prepared to do something about keeping 10.000 Swedes at work. Which they demonstrably aren’t.
Ivo
The US Treasury Dept still owns 33% of GM? Couldn’t SweGov at least have a chat with the Americans and ask them kindly to extend a helping hand?
Mr Cain says GM are protecting the shareholders. Well… We should talk to them in that case.
By itself the Swedish government getting tough with GM won’t do a lot I agree, but if this was a part of a multi pronged attack that swayed public opinion against GM it would certainly help.
It’s time the Swedish government made some gesture. All it has shown thus far is incompetence.
Swedish government has been asleep at the wheel for a long time now.
News like this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16643790 makes me want to spit!
Clear now that GM wants to badge engineer the 9-5 and 9-4X for themselves and probably never intended to let a reborn Saab have them.
This is essentially my worries. GM is going to say NO anything touches on its IP. So the only way is to go round it like what Youngman is going to do. When that is done, we can tell GM to go fly kite.
Dear American citizens,
Please talk to Your Congressman/Senator/President
Socialized/governmental owned controlled company GM acts very negatively towards fighting for its life car maker SAAB. Putting 3500 skilled swedish workers out of jobs and endangering the economic structure of a region.
Not to forget how much tax payed money is wasted!
+1 to Baracuda
And + 1 to Trued also!
Hi Trued, this is indeed good but someone her said ( Markac I believe) that it is also time for the Swedish government to get tough with GM.
And that is something the Swedish people must do; write to the government and ask them to wake up.
The swedish government getting tough with GM. I don’t think so. The cowards are only acting tough against poor or sick people.
And of course the industry, including Saab.
If they ever had that option, which they clearly do not, they should have done something to save this situation a long time ago. I wonder how much pride the country actually has in its most iconic brand, doesn’t seem like too much from this side of the pond.
Clearly that brightwell is not the right partner if they also don’t get the IP . Only 9 3 might work for youngman , not for the Turks . Can’t wait for more news tomorrow…
just drop GM; it does not even make sense to continue to discuss this anymore.
+1
Here is the original quote in Swedish from svd.se
“– Vi är inte i diskussioner med någon om Saab och vi kommer inte att licensiera tekniken till NÅGON köpare, säger James Cain. ”
The Swedish word “någon” can sometimes mean “some” and sometimes mean “any”. This time it means “any”. So we were only a bit lost in translation… it should have said:
“we will not license the technology to any buyer”
So that is clear; GM does not want to have any legal obligation anymore against a company which acquires Saab.
So let it please be the opposite as well; Saab has no obligations whatsoever against GM.
Feels like Mr Cain said the same thing last week, or was it the week before that? And Brightwell says they are talking to GM. Is Cain the new Bagdad Bob, living in his own little world?
Further down in the article:
Why do you say no?
-As we have said before, because it is not in GM’s shareholder’s interest – they take extreme technology.
Even if buyers are not Chinese?
-Yes.
Not sure about a better translation for “extreme technology” here but the statement is pretty clear.
I think ‘cutting-edge technology’ may be the correct translation. But that’s nonsense, of course. That tech is already just about obsolete, the NG 9-5 was ready for launch like 4 years ago, even before the Opel Insignia was launched. GM just don’t want to revive a competitor in a key market. Because if a smart Chinese was given the choice between a NG 9-5 Aero XWD and a Buick LaCrosse, what car would he/she go for? Right.
Ivo
GM – Bad business practice all over the world.
In the future, I will harm them where I can. Personally I will never buy a GM car again. I will do all I can to convince my friends and relatives to stay away from GM. And I will spread the message about their bad business practice whenever there is an opportunity to do this.
You better get a large mic. They just surpassed Toyota and are back on top. They can care less about us and our never wanting to buy a car from them. They are too big to care about anyone and they show it.
I never ever thougt that I would praise Volkswagen Group but take a look at the brands what they have now. They made almost all of htem successful, they never obstructed any of their brands intentionally without doubt . And notice that they have problems with Seat but they are not seem to sell it.
And compare with GM.
I don’t know how far they have come with the development of the different components for the next 9-3 but would it be possible to use some of these components to replace GM-components in current 9-3?
Hmm my personal don’t-buy-list is getting longer:
Don’t buy any Continental Tires again (for first buying the Austrian Brand Semperit (inventor of winter tires), receiving lot’s of subsidies an closing the profitable factory down as soon as they could and then moving the machines to eastern europe.
GM for screwing Saab. The sad part – I really liked GM Trucks a few years ago and my girl friend has an Opel…
Uh-oh, dilema: Gislaved are part of the Continental group.
I thought Continental stopped the actual manufacture of tyres in Gislaved a few years ago? I have driven past the factory many times in the past decade and witnessed its closure and then rebirth with new companies using the space instead.
How much money did Saab Automobile invest in development and tooling of the 9-5 and 9-4? And now the company that rises from the ashes can’t even build these cars.
I see one HUGE lawsuit coming. Costs + lost profits + interest = a lot of cash. YM could use that money to put the SAAB brand back on the map with some mighty World Cup, Winter Olympics, Golden League, British Open, Wimbledon, Icy Hockey World Championships and Super bowl adds for the next 10 years.
They will need to build a second factory in THN as a result.
In your face G.
Like that; hope it will happen as you describe……
The new Saabs that are available here in Sweden right now are owned by GM AC. If I buy a new Saab, that means that I will support mother GM which feels wrong. On the other hand I would like to support the dealership, so how should one do???
In my opinion the new Saabs belong to the assets of the company or, if with dealers, are assets of the one who purchased these.
I do not see how GM could pretend ownership of these Saab cars.
I talked to the sales guy at ANA Trollhättan last weekend, and he confirmed that GM´s fincance company owned the cars that were new. I do not know why, and it´s probably only here in Sweden, but it´s quite ironic.
I tend to do as Phermansson suggests, and go for an old demo car instead.
As an ex dealer in the UK it is part of the franchise dealer network agreement that all dealer car funding is provided by GMAC which means that new cars are essentially funded by GMAC. When our dealership closed all new and indeed used cars were then taken back by GMAC and will be remarketed by them.
Buy a used one?
I think you are thinking of “GMAC”, now known as “Ally Financial”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ally_Financial
Most is owned by the US government. GM takes a small share:
Motors Liquidation Company (5.9%)
General Motors (4%)
So… What you need to do is to buy 96% of that Saab. Leave the mirrors or something behind. Problem solved.
Right, GMAC financed many dealer’s lots.
Thank´s for the clarification. I think I can live with the 4%.
😉
+1,000,000
Saab/YM must block GrandMom from using the eXWD system in the future no matter what!
Deeply dissapointed that this assures the death of the current 9-5 and 9-4. Still, the value of my vehicles is enhanced by the public seeing the Saab company continue. I bought the 9-4 knowing it might be a completely unique, one year vehicle, but the 9-5? That just seems unecessary.
I know that GM has postured in absolutes before, especially two years ago when they were “winding down” Saab with no interest in alternatives.
Well, now wait. If the author’s assertion is correct, (“And even if GM says they won’t license technology it still does not mean that they won’t sell parts to Saab.”) then a new owner could continue to build the car in its current form. They just couldn’t continue using the tech in newly developed vehicles. Hoping, anyway.
That assertion was meant for the current 9-3. As sad as it is but I don’t expect to see the current 9-5 and the 9-4x in a future Saab model portfolio. You need licensing for those two models, for the current 9-3 you need only parts to avoid re-engineering.
So we will drive a unique car; just a pity that the IP comes from GM.
Hope however the car will continue to drive as good and fine as it does now for many more years.
This is very very worrying. It confirms none of the suitors even picked up the phone to call GM. They should be the ones hearing this (or something else) from GM directly, not us through newswires.
I am sure there is a difference between what a spokesman says to the press, and what decision makers at GM would tell to a seriously interested party that would make them an offer. But that confirms no such offer was made.
I ‘ve been listening to the song “Release me” when driving to the Outside Saab Meeting in Stuttgart, Germany and thought, why in God’s name is GM behaving like that…
Wonderful add BTW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKViA_z6jwE
Tjis morning I had a conversation with the tarmac in my office parking lot.. It was actually more engaging then trying to have a conversation with GM I thought…
lol!
Unfortunately I agree. With that much money at stake I can only hope the long term plan is concrete with YM.
Opel cars have historically been sold in Australia as rebadged Holden cars (Australian car maker owned by GM) later this year Opel is being launched in Australia under its own separate brand, as an upmarket European brand to compete directly with Volkswagen, Peugeot, Renault etc. I am somewhat skeptical because Opel has always been known as a European Holden just like Vauxhall in the UK. GM are quickly being known for their bad business decisions.
Am I the only one that is curious about the 5 billion bid? If the creditors claims on Saab is only 2 Billion. Why the extra 3 billion? Is it because the value of the parts is bigger?
Anyone with som insight?
This might be so they also can pay the creditors at the same time…
You mean that they will resolve the EIB loan also?
Makes sense, it is a very bad loan and with that out of the way they can have less insight in the business during the restart.
Wonder if GM would alow Saab to produce the current 9-5 but restrict the countries they can market the car?
If the retail network only has products so it can survive for 5 year period it would be much easier to make the business work.
produce only the 9.3 may not be a prolem if YM decided to produce and market the cars in Europe which is already produced in China with their brand.It could be a opportunity for dealers waiting for the new saab
Is GM really going to block this again??? Do we need to occupy that facebook wall again like in november?
I was owner of an opel insignia, witch I let go last year. I do not want to have one nut that belongs to the GM umbrella.
I’m already planning to buy the next generation Saab (phoenix) 900 to put next to my classic 900. CANT WAIT!
By a GM spokesman actually saying that GM won’t license technology to anyone, it has now put itself in a position where it can directly attacked. Let the fun begin!
I have said it before: GM is a lost cause. Big Ed is no longer the GM CEO. Ed is the one who sold Saab. The new guy(GM CEO) does not care about anything but money.
Just a thought.
james.cain@xx.xxx. Tell him what we think about that
Remember that he is not the one making the decisions. Stay polite, gentlemen! /till72
hold your horses, don’t shoot the messenger.
exactly! Act like rational gentlemen, not teenage schoolkids.
Keep calm and carry on!
SAAB UP
Let us occupy that facebook wall again like and send mailto:[email protected] Let the fun begin
This really only confirms what we already knew. Gm were never going to play along.
I only hope the current 9-3 can still be used as YMcertainly have the funds to get cracking on the Phoenix pronto!
Rachel up!
This is yesterdays news and not suprising. GM:s point of view was clear even before the bankruptcy. They did not want to licence to anyone before the bankruptcy so why would they change their mind now? Youngman now this and are now try to find a solution for this. But as usual, Swedish media use this as another disadvantage of Saabs future and it is of course very sad.
GM again? We all know what GM loves to Saab. Saab will survive without GM and we will be HAPPIER.
Hell Yeah!
Be GM-Free; buy a 9000 (if you can still find a good one..) and keep it till the new non-GM 900 becomes available !
+1
I’m doing just that; keep on driving my 9K till the all new 900 arrives…
And IF that never happens I’ll eventually buy another Swedish car, but never ever a GM product…
+9 !
99,90,900,9000: proud history, timeless design!, equivalent to the Viking Air legacy fleet….
I’ll just keep on driving my 9000 as long as I can. Period.
Ivo
Good plan…!
They’re able to outlive any GM product anyway….
Just coming to the end of a refurbishment of my Black 9000 Aero. Cant wait to have it back on the road so I can lay the Classic 900 up for a bit.
sounds like a good plan!
i love my white ng 900 cab.. (i know its a GM) i love to take good care of it…
but i am planing on buying a 9000 aero or 900 soon…
they are just awesome…
i don’t care what happens… there are enough saabs out there…my second car is going to be a Saab
no matter what…
just find the right one… and take care of it…
ivcho
Great; if you find a nice 9000 in good shape, buy it; they’re getting really hard to find..
The first thing i thought about when i read the article:
What the f*ck and what an arrogance from GM!
That’s a very interesting point you hav wrote and (perhaps) that is indead the reason why GM is acting the way they are doing.
I don’t think every other big car company would have treated Saab the way GM did. Take a look at Ford / Volvo; that was quite the opposite of what happened at GM / Saab…
GM just seems to be one of those companies you better stay away from, we learned it the hard way I guess….
Ford for example Ford allows anyone to use some of their engines and/or drivetrains in cars for small fee (many small/local sports car manufacturers have their engines), Toyota as well…
Not everyone is douchebag…
Why are they such assh*les?? Makes me sad and makes me angry.
Today i got some very bad news, my father had is eye on a new 9-3 griffin, but because of everything that has happened he has decided to buy a Opel Astra 🙁 Damn you GM.
So why on earth did he go buy a GM product?
Well I guess he has lost faith in the company as a result of the bankruptcy. He really wanted a Griffin, has owned in the past 2 9-3´s and one 9-5. But in his defense he did have a previous generation Astra for a short while and it wasn´t totally horrible.
I have tried to make him wait or look at another SAAB but no-go I´m not going to be able to look him in the eye anymore.
That deserves a high five, in the face, with a chair.
I belive in YM. SAAB need a new start, from the beginning. I am just so tired of to hear anything from GM and NO is just an echo. If YM is villing to invest in Saab and restart the facorty, It will be great.
Built up Saab again from the beginning, but during the time produce 9-3.
This company has to survive in some way. With 9-5 or not.
Agree with you.
Just hope that the model of the 9-5, which is one of the nicest cars driving around these days, as well as the 9-5 SC will be used by YM for future developments.
Well done GM, now you’ve really hit a new low. Didn’t think that was possible. What a pathetic excuse of a company, living off vultured technology developed by hard-working Swedes. The Swedish government should seize all of Saabs assets, sell it to Youngman and FUGM.
At least a clear view from GM, so lets all forget GM for now and in the future.
Oh dear. I’ve been sitting on the fence so far but it looks like GM’s true colours are showing … as in they did a slow “Corporate raid”.
The apparent protectionism is laughable … it NEVER works!
twists and turns, current Swedish government disabled and placing bets on financial services? does the silent Swedish investor exist? is gm ip/tech worth having ? I have never been to Sweden but as an outsider it looks messy… the Swedish government will bring zero pressure to bear on gm, China will exert the pressure on gm in the form of increased tariffs… look to the German auto giants on how to deal with open socialism…
Has YM ever said anything about reinstating warranties with their bid? Or are us 2010, 11 and 12 owners stuck holding the bag? Too soon? Just wondering if I should buy an aftermarket warranty.
That is a very well educated guess, and analysis, in my opinion. After all, Saabs are experts at this game. They came up with a future-proof platform in 1967 … and were still using it in a modified guise in 1994!