TTela snippets

January 27, 2012January 28, 2012 by Red J

Today, ttela.se has published three interesting Saab-related articles. The first is an interview with Swade, as he spent the last week in Sweden to say farewell to friends and, this is my impression, to the Saab factory.
The article is well written, but the title is a little bit confusing.

“I have given up hope”

Because of that Swade has written a clarification on his own blog Swadeology.

And this is what he says about the title of this article.

This is not referring to Saab. People who read further into the article will see that I personally do not hold any great hopes of working for Saab again myself, which is the situation the headline should refer to.

I wanted to transport this clarification to Saabsunited, because he is a (the) very important person in the Saab community and I don’t want that people start spreading rumours about him here.

It looks like TTela has noticed the misunderstanding, and today they have updated the article with some footage of the interview.

The second one is about Riksgälden (NDO) and EIB. The Swedish national debt office has paid back Saab’s EIB loan. Why have they done it now?

The prerequisite for the EIB to grant the loan to Saab Automobile was the Swedish government gave its guarantee to pay if the situation was such that it could not repay. When Saab went into bankruptcy Debt Office began the administrative procedure prior to the payment to the EIB.

The good thing about this is that no prospect owner of Saab will have to negotiate any matter with the EIB, which was quite complicated in 2011. The bad thing is, Saab Parts AB and Saab Tool AB where the collateral for that loan, which means that NDO could seek out its claims, splitting those two companies from Saab Automobile. But for the time being, they want to endorse the sale of the whole Saab Automobile as one packet.

The question of a sale is among the receivers. We are for a sale of the whole and have not had occasion to reconsider this view.

And after hearing many things about Brightwell, now is time for Youngman once again.

According to ttela.se Youngman will be in Stockholm on monday to meet the receivers. This time not only Rachel Pang coming to Sweden, her father pang Quingnian is also coming to Sweden, which shows that this meeting is more important for Youngman this time.

—

I don’t want to be arrogant, but I want to say something about the Turkish press. I remember the articles in the Russian press saying that Saab did belong to Mr. Antonov, and articles in the Chinese press saying that Youngman owned the phoenix platform. China and Russia are proud nations and the national press did exaggerate some aspects of the Saab deals. Well I’m getting the impression that the Turkish press is also being a little bit too optimistic about Brightwell and Saab.

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Smithy

All I can think of when I hear Mahindra, is how incredible today’s Jaguars are! Indian ownership might be the essential thing for Saab, but Youngman has been committed for a longer period of time, even pre-investing, that does matter when concluding a deal.

Brightwell? Well, I really hope they know what they’re doing, they need the money and the “Griffin dedication”..

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Over9000

Brightwell is certainly quite enthusiastic about the whole thing…

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Iiari

All of today’s incredible Jaguars were developed under Ford (as were all of today’s Volvos). We have yet to see a ground up Jaguar developed by Tata. Let’s see how it does (despite my tone, I think it’ll go just fine). Just saying…

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CSD_ChineseSaabDriver

Swade is a great Saab guy.

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montahue

Swade is a great guy generally.

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ivo 71

Swade is great. Period.

Ivo

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CSD_ChineseSaabDriver

Turks are also a proud nation.

In fact I like Turkish people, and if BW got the deal, congrats, I will continue buying Saabs under Turkish flag.

But IMHO BW is no match against YM, YM not only has big money backed by local Chinese banks and funds, and they have a huge home market for Saabs.

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montahue

There are thousands Turkish people living in Sweden and if you count the Turkish Kurds (who might or might not consider them self Turkish) they are 100.000+ and its’s not a bad thing if this group of people also got all nationalistic about their choice of car.

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CSD_ChineseSaabDriver

and articles in the Chinese press saying that Youngman owned the phoenix platform == Chinese press didn’t say YM owns the PhoeniX platform, it only mentions that YM bought the rights to use PhoeniX. And 99.99% of Chinese reports on YM and PD with Saab is NEGATIVE, they find it stupid to buy Saab, and in general there is no interests among Chinese car fans over Saab, because there is simply no people responding to the news reports over YM and Saab, while over other stuff a lot of replies. BUT: YM is deadly SERIOUS, they are coming .. Next… Read more »

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CSD_ChineseSaabDriver

And to make it clear:

YM buying Saab is the MOST smart thing to do, it is a great investment into a great brand, in long term it is a very good investment.

I wish YM very good luck.

青年必胜，马到成功，龙年大吉，加油！

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ArchDandy

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Chris Carrier

Unless you’re one who put money into the most recent of Saab’s products, the 9-5 and 9-4 both of which will certainly disappear with Chinese ownership. Youngman is better than being broken up, certainly, but I have to root for an alternative that might just allow the 9-5 and 9-4 to continue. If Youngman does buy Saab, the could win me over by putting money at least to support parts and warranty for existing owners.

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Angelo V.

Chris: I’d rather see Mahindra, with their light truck line, buy Saab. They could sell Saabs and Mahindra trucks at the Saab dealers—-that’s more people in the showrooms and cross-selling for future purchases perhaps. But I have a feeling that the only way GM will license technology for the 9-4 and 9-5 is if the new owner doesn’t do business where GM does business. So counting on production of the 9-4 and 9-5 might be a losing cause. I hope I’m wrong—or I hope the deal is made without GM—-then later, they realize there’s money to be made by licensing,… Read more »

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saabyurk

Youngman is my sentimental favorite, however, will his bid be held in limbo for 3 months by the NDRC like some reports say? I wonder if the receivers could accept a bid like that, no matter how good. I sure wish YM could have a prearranged NDRC approval.

Member

This type of snippets is great, thanks Red J! 🙂
It will be an interesting week!

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theSandySaab

Is this developing into yet another roller coaster ride???
I start to feel excited for this possible turnaround, that maybe, just maybe there will be “Saab” cars again rolling out of a factory somewhere…Three weighty and seemingly genuinely interested parties that possibly could develop Saab, GM free…
So, I am finding my F5 for the nest weeks Saab news…
I certainly keep all available fingers crossed for a happy ending….and a new beginning!

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ryanonsrc

Well since Saab has fallen off the roller coaster tracks … once they are put back on the rails: the only direction to go is up!

A new beginning is on the horizon: Griffin Up folks!

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tmra

You are right Red J. The Turkish Press is almost eveyday making up some news about MH and Saab. Some of them are real some totally crap, as you have written optimistic. But in previous posts what i have written about the latests news are summaries all from the interviews with BH CEO first hand and some tweets he tweeted.

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nichell

I think B.H., Youngman and Mahindra, should form a conglomerate or company, and buy Saab, with each putting up 33 1/3%.
They would then be able to invest more. That would be the ideal thing, but of course it would never work out.

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ivo 71

Well, a joint-venture could, in theory, work out quite well for everyone but I also doubt they could co-operate on an equal basis, also given the enormous cultural differences. Moreover, there is always GM lurking in the shadows, refusing to co-operate on the 9-5/9-4X issues because of, they say, the potential threat to their markets in China. And possibly India as well, even though they are only selling Chevywoos there and virtually no Buicks, Opels or other GM brands that would/could compete with the NG 9-5…).

Ivo

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Angelo V.

From another thread, written by “Jersey Saab:” “GM is a government-owned enterprise managed by knuckleheads. They don’t need a sensible reason beyond being fearful of any possible competition, and indeed have publicly announced their intention to not license any of their technology to company that purchases Saab. Any prospective new owner of Saab will need to plan for a GM-free launch. Youngman appears to understand this now, hopefully that is the case with the other suitors as well.” Well said. Anyone familiar with the “Peanuts” cartoons knows that every time Lucy holds the football for Charlie Brown to kick it,… Read more »

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100%Saab

Expect GM to do only what GM thinks is in their best interest. Ultimately GM would like to say they paid the US Government and tax payers back. Don’t expect GM to do anything that they think will lose money. Now having said that remember the credit crisis caused by greedy investors. (Need a car loan?) And, remember the spike in gas prices – call it manipulation. If you have a lot of cash you can afford to lose money for a while. Also remember a US President who is pushing for more American jobs and a Swedish Government who… Read more »

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Aero1

GM is not owned by the US Govt., they are just very large share holders, GM has paid some portion of what they owe, but have not and probably never will be held accountable for us the Taxpayers that GM still owes multiple $BILLIONS! GM is wholly run by a Cult of Non Humans!-(This purely speculation)

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Chris Hansel

I’m a taxpayer, and I very happy on how this investment has paid off to date. One million jobs saved. Sweden needs to think like Obama did. If your job was ( is ) on the line, would you have objected to a govt. loan? By the way, GM is run by human beings, not space aliens. Lets cut the hate speech down, remember, you are dishing your countrymen, not beings from another planet.

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Aero1

More jobs were lost than you know, entire companies have failed=SAAB, towns have died-(Pontiac MI, Flint MI, etc.) because of GM, and this is pure truth and not hate nor am I dissing my countrymen- GM owes about $6 Billion and that is also fact, part of that is my $, which by the way was not handed to me for pure charity!!! It was earned!

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JerseySaab

I’m a taxpayer, and I am very unhappy about money being taken from me by force and given to a badly-run private company that was given special privileges/bailouts by two administrations. This is a perfect example of government and big business in collusion to loot the citizenry. (Usually they are more discreet about it, this time it was done in plain view!) We have well-established laws and procedures for dealing with bankruptcy in this country, and these should have been followed. This is supposed to be a nation of laws, not of men. I will never purchase any GM product,… Read more »

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Angelo V.

I have the same feelings you do about buying GM in the future. I involuntarily gave money to them a couple years ago—-I doubt that I will now voluntarily give them more. But I guess if I worked there, had a family to feed—-I would have gone along with the heist. Sure, it’s charity from your neighbors, who couldn’t afford it themselves—-I guess that’s true—-but because of the way it was disguised, the guilt would be tempered a bit.

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Angelo V.

Chris: Why GM then? The same billions and billions could have been used to save a million jobs among small businesses in the U.S. that went under during the massive worldwide economic downturn. Thousands of small businesses laid people off or went out of business—-why not use the same money to help them, and let a giant corpration like GM, with mega-lawyers, go through normal bankruptcy proceedings to come out leaner? This was not about “saving jobs” it was about repaying political favors and setting up a campaign coffer for this election coming up. It’s money that gets recycled and… Read more »

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Iiari

Why? Because it’s about far more than just a company, it’s about the entire infrastructure needed to support an industry and, once that industry is gone, it’s NEVER COMING BACK. NEVER. Not in your or my lifetime… Think you’re going to live to see mainstream built American TV’s, for example? Nope, gone and never coming back. This was totally about saving jobs AND saving the ability for America to be engaged in an entire industry. I have no love for GM either, but I think it was the right move. Your politically tinged posts are getting tiresome at SU and… Read more »

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Angelo V.

This IS SU, (isn’t it?). You’re entitled to your opinion that it was the right move to bailout GM and Chrysler—-I’m also entitled to my opinions. I try to stay on topic but I do respond to others. Political decisions are at the heart of how large corporations are run. Big corporations (as well as their unions) support political candidates on both sides (unions, generally on one side but corporations can and do go both ways). Get used to it. It’s all intertwined. If the discussion is about which modifications are the best for the 9-3 or what aftermarket tires… Read more »

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nichell

GM has totally degenerated now that they’re partially run by the present US Administration..My opinion only

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saabdog

Right on Vagabond. GM is a political entity, not a business. The debacle with the Volt is just one example of how politics drives their business. As long as they have access to an almost “unlimited” amount of taxpayer money, there’s no incentive to make decisions based on market reality. I predict the bankruptcy specter will visit GM again in the future. But maybe with a new administration, a real bankruptcy reorganization based on the constitution will guarantee that GM’s bond holders will get their due, instead of a handover of the company to the unions, forcing bondholders to take… Read more »

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Angelo V.

Both of you are right on target. GM is only around in their current form because of political reasons/political timing. They were propped up with billions upon billions of taxpayer dollars and were not forced (some would say not allowed) to shed the enormous led weights that helped drag them down to begin with. They will fail again….not a matter of “if” but a matter of “when.” Again, depending on who is in power, they might be propped up the same way they were in 2009 or next time, they might not be. Political entity. I have to remember that… Read more »

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saabo

I have been sceptical about a Chinese ownership and an initial line up without the 9-5 and 9-4, mainly because I do not think that the old 9-3 would reach any volumes again here in Europe, specially not here in Sweden (even though the latest Griffin version seems to be competitive if sold to a lower price). But looking at the picture once again I realise that if YM wins the bidding they would have acces to the large chinese market, and that could mean volumes that would be enough for 2-3 years before the next generation “Griffins”, without GM… Read more »

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Angelo V.

The thing I find ironic/amusing through all of this is the idea of deals being stopped because of “GM Technology” being held back. I get it—-I understand the licensing and how the GM tech is embedded in Saab’s newest products. But the funny part is that historically, GM has been anything but a technology leader. More irony is that they sort of did what they accuse the Chinese of doing—-take someone else’s technology and run with it in their own form or hire people from smaller automakers, who were developing better technology. I read in Lee Iacocca’s autobiograhpy that back… Read more »

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saaburban

Mahindra + Youngman= SAAB
Give the chinese an entry to India, and give the Indians an opening to china and use Saab to enter the rest of the world.
Add Saab technology, neutral development center in trollhattan.
Add a western premium branding, with Asian investments.
That’s what I call a business plan

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Iiari

“I have given up hope” I don’t think is an inflammatory tagline at all. I mean, given the current situation, how can one have not? I mean, I have given up hope myself: – I have given up hope a NG 9-3 will be available in time to replace my Turbo-X. Not happening… – I have given up hope that even if such a car magically appeared that I would be able to buy it from an excellent local Saab dealer (mine being Shaw Saab, which is closing Feb 3rd to become a Lexus dealer). – I have given up… Read more »

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mnztr

There are many SAAB dealers that have more then one brand. If the buyer is well financed, then I believe they will be very interested in resuming their relationship with the brand. There are many SAABs still on the road, and there is an opportunity to sell those drivers their next car. So even though the dealer network will be significantly smaller (I suspect by 40 or 50%) that will make the survivors more viable and create a good platform for future growth. If they can save it, I think it will ALL depend on the next generation 9-3. If… Read more »

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Joseph

Hey guys I was wondering if Youngman owns the Phoenix platform. I thought I read on here that they didn’t yet I see a few stories online that say that they have. If there’s been an article on here that explains it could you please send me a link? Thanks.

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ivo 71

No, they don’t. What they bought is the right (license) to use the Phoenix platform to build cars on. The platform itself is still the intellectual property of Saab and included in the sale of the bankrupt company. The stories you allude to originate in China and are more like wishful thinking.

Ivo