Turkish Brightwell pulls out – “GM wants to kill Saab”

Zamier Ahmed says this to www.di.se tonight.
Reason to this is the attitude if GM
Everything was under control and we where excepting final feedback from GM. They changed their position in the very last minute. I am sorry to say that I have never seen such behavior from a company of that size ever”
Said by Zamier Ahmed and he is really disappointed.
He claims that they have put a plan on the table for Saabs future, GM has not only showed their unwillingness to cooperate but also the conclusion made by Ahmed that GM wants to kill Saab.
Brightwell says that everyone has been very cooperative in their work process lawyers, everyone…
More tomorrow on this….

87 thoughts on “Turkish Brightwell pulls out – “GM wants to kill Saab””

  1. I hope GM’s attitude is because they have reached an agreement with someone else. Please let BMW be the owner of Saab and let them produce all current models.

    All this waiting is killing me.

    • I doubt this is the case. What this likely means is that they refused to consider licensing anything meaning a new owner would have to start over with new models only….no resumption of production.

  2. Disappointing news, but not really surprising.

    It is possible that GM’s last minute change of position is because they have reached an understanding with a different bidder. But sadly it is more likely Mr. Ahmed is right.

  3. Not surprising.
    I think the best fit for Saab, would be BMW, if they are indeed the Munich automaker in play for Saab. They wouldn’t need any GM licensing & GM’s stake should be dissolved if BMW is the chosen one to get Saab.

    Like many here, I am tired of GM’s shit.

    • Saab wasn’t dead yet then, it was in a coma.
      Similarly to it is now.
      Pontiac, like Oldsmobile, Saturn & HUMMER I will consider dead.
      But not Saab. not yet if ever.

  4. Of course Zamier Ahmed is right. But i don`t understand why he surprise???. GM`s stance has been known for years … Why do you think spyker was the one who GM approved first time round, quite simply they knew they did not have the financial backing to make it work… Did he not follow what happened first time around…. remember what happened with the Koeniqsegg deal? deal all but done almost done publicity photographs taken then GM moved the goal posts….

  5. Well this can have two meanings: a) either B is anticipating a deal ans want to test reaction of the consistent market of Saab and potentially acquire more leverage in the last steps, or b) is actually the end for B which perhaps were used as a gamble card for another deal more consistent and more feasible for another bidder, which in the first place (it is sad to say) may have the agenda of engineering, steel price and other elements like green power fueling the vehicles to complete the “efficient dynamics” brand! Or perhaps Saab is actually wanted dead by GM and none of this efforts mean anything – but this is rather not possible. We will see. I think the play is not about Saab necessarily, but about what can bring the plant and technology available in Trolls’ city to someone else. Anyone can pretend to build saabs for 2..3 years again and pretend: “well … it did not work out”. We have to wait until a deal is made clear on the table – until than is just stress and speculation. There are people that know what they are doing. Obviously the lawyers appointed would go for the best deal in terms of cash as this ia measure for their commission perhaps.

  6. This doesn’t surprise me in the least. I was always skeptical that Brightwell was in any sort of real negotiation with GM. Maybe they were (what do I know, after all), but given how GM has acted it seemed quite unlikely to me. The only way for Saab to continue is to try and purchase parts for the 9-3 from GM or start totally fresh with BMW or another company that will provide the parts needed. The latter is the superior option in the long run, but will mean a much longer restart time.

  7. Well this can have two meanings: a) either B is anticipating a deal ans want to test reaction of the consistent market of Saab and potentially acquire more leverage in the last steps, or b) is actually the end for B which perhaps were used as a gamble card for another deal more consistent and more feasible for another bidder, which in the first place (it is sad to say) may have the agenda of engineering, steel price and other elements like green power fueling the vehicles to complete the “efficient dynamics” brand! Or perhaps Saab is actually wanted dead by GM and none of this efforts mean anything – but this is rather not possible. We will see. I think the play is not about Saab necessarily, but about what can bring the plant and technology available in Trolls’ city to someone else. Anyone can pretend to build saabs for 2..3 years again and pretend: “well … it did not work out”. We have to wait until a deal is made clear on the table – until than is just stress and speculation. There are people that know what they are doing. Obviously the lawyers appointed would go for the best deal in terms of cash, as this ia measure for their commission perhaps.

  8. PS: or perhaps someone else needed a sign! In this instance is interesting to know what VM has to say – lat time I heard he was counselling Bwell!

  9. I personaly don not believe that GM will change its mind to anyone who wants to take-over SAAB. Not YM, not Brightwell, not BMW…
    Only thing that could make them change their mind is a very big hole in their pockets.
    Opel (GM Europe) is in very bad position, but they are stand-alone now.
    Don’t know if they still receive money from Detroit.
    If they do… then let’s hope Opel will go bad for months to come!

  10. not enjoyable to say i’m right but i already told that B.H was in this game just to get their name out and get press coverage. 1 month ago no one knew them, now they are thousand times more known in the automotive world and press. the p.r they got from this game could be measured in millions of dollars. tv interviews, magazine, daily paper headlines. full loudness, full noise and i’m sure it will pay off for them. they never had the funds, they said they had. they never talked to gm really they said they did. unfortunately mr.manas and mr.ahmrt used a bankrupt saab as a step for themselves. i’m 0% surprised. good luck to serious bidders.

  11. “GM wants to kill Saab”

    I don’t know why some of us are sill surprised to see this? Whoever wants to take over SAAB, they have to do it whithout GM PERIOD….This’s been said many many time, let’s make sure we all undrestand that! Forget Goverment Morons!

    • I’m with you. It’s about time that anyone who is willing to by SAAB understands the obvious. Forget about GM and don’t waste more time because chances become less everyday…

    • Agreed, the idea that GM is going to help SAAB at all is incredibly naive and goes against almost every move in GM’s history. GM is the epitome of a large faceless corporation, they have written off SAAB and don’t want to pay their lawyers anymore money to deal with what they see as a headache. I’m sure everyone at GM HQ is kicking themselves for not shuttering the brand when they had the chance.

  12. Now it’s BMW vs Mahindra.! Are we going to be like that guy who leaves Saab and buys an Audee? Are we going to be like that guy? Are we going to be like that guy, always complaining. No. We’re not going to be like that guy, so let’s go buy an ice cold Bud and celebrate.

    • No, it’s not. Not one source has so far confirmed that BMW is involved in the bidding. Until someone with knowledge does confirm it, BMW is not a player, no matter how much we all want them to be.

      A reliable source, anyone?

      Ivo

        • I’m getting the feeling Youngman is either not wanted by SweGov or China doesn’t want another car company they can’t just chop and 100% move to mainland. Plus their behavior has been kind of erratic, and as much as I hate to say it (I’m prepared to see lots of red thumbs next to this comment) it’s looking like Mahindra is the only real official bidder who could pull this off. I really really hope BMW is at least partnering with someone to pull this off, GM free…

  13. Still so very confused as to how the bankruptcy of Saab has made things easier for them with issues regarding GM. As far as I can tell, nothing has changed after he bankruptcy since GM is still very much here and apparently has very much a big part in the the bidders’ decision. My understanding is that if Saab wishes to restart, they can as long as they don’t use GM’s POS IP but that it is necessary to use it for a little while until they get back on their feet. If this is the truth and GM doesn’t to play, I’m getting really tired of all of this false hope.

    I’d like to stay as positive as I can because I can’t imagine a life without Saab, but all of this GM nonsense is really starting to tire me. If there’s no option for GM to play the game, then the only option is for Saab to restart without them.

    • BMW wouldn’t care if they got the platforming rights. They have very well engineered platforms, that could be used for the time being till Phoenix is completed. As for YM, they cannot offer anything close.

      • Shifting Saab over to BMW platforms in any short term time frame is not easily done, and even if it could be done, would be insanely expensive. BMW platforms are RWD, except for MINI. Putting FWD on a RWD platform is not economically viable and is certainly not happening quickly. As for the MINI or 1-series platform, I doubt it can scale up to 9-3, 9-4x, or 9-5 size at all, much less in a reasonable time frame. Phoenix would be ready well before that. And even if BMW had a platform which Saab could use right away, you’re still looking at plenty of engineering work, testing, safety and emissions certification, etc.

        Saab could probably start using BMW engines fairly quickly on the current 9-3, but that and maybe a blatant badge-engineered micro-Saab off the MINI platform is about as far as it goes for short-term possibilities without a GM license, IMHO.

  14. It´s no suprise.. really…
    BUT WHAT PI**ES ME OFF it´s the attitude of GM can pass with no punishment!!
    They don´t care the efford or the countles hours people spend to save Saab!
    Saab to them is an menace and they will allways try to move the goal post!!
    We don´t know for sure if it is BMW but if any of the BMW man in charge will read this, please BUY Saab and we will help you KILL GM!
    Eye for an eye… ( GM law )
    Well we don´t pay back in the same way….
    But i know for sure that Saab with BMW will terminate GM for good!!!

    BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!

  15. Wow, Brightwell is out, what a surprise that is. How he can act so shocked that GM isn’t willing to play ball when it’s been so blatantly obvious to so many of the people here is the biggest surprise to me. I don’t think BW had any real intentions of buying Saab and if they did it would have been a disaster, glad to see them out.

    As for GM, the only way Saab is saved is by someone willing to start from scratch, GM doesn’t need Saab and they want the threat and money drain neutralized. My fingers are still crossed that a real bidder like BMW or MM will pick up the pieces and redevelop the company

    • I don’t think it was a scam, the reputation of Brightwell as an investor is too good for that kind of games. Moreover, they don’t need being ridiculized by the media for being either naive or of bad faith. That kind of publicity doesn’t enhance the stature of a serious investor.

      And I can absolutely imagine Zamier Achmed’s shock if GM kept feeding Brightwell a crock of… well, llet’s say a line which they cut just before a deal seemed to materialize. They did the same with Spyker at the time, moving the goalposts as soon as they seemed to have been fixed in the ground. Only Spyker somehow managed to acceed to all the demands of GM until, in the end, GM just couldn’t come up with any more even slightly justifiable conditions to put, so they signed. Probably in the safe knowledge that the adventure was doomed anyway, given the terms Spyker had to swallow.

      Ivo

    • I wouldn’t call it a scam, I’d say a mix of naive and big talking. BW never had the funds or the know how to make Saab work and their estimation that they could have Saab up in running in 8 weeks was laughable. I don’t see BW intentions as being nefarious or deserving of the description of “scam” but I don’t believe they were ever a serious player and the non news that GM isn’t going to play ball gave them an easy way out of the bidding when perhaps a little reality of what a Saab purchase would actually mean finally hit them.

  16. IMO, there is ONLY one bidder who wants SAAB to exist as a brand.

    The other bidders like Volvo and Baic only want parts of Saab factory.

    MM not made a bid at all.

    So it is pretty clear who will get what.

    • How do you know what M&M did or didn’t? They have this gag agreement with the receivers, don’t they? So we -and you- wouldn’t know if they made a bid or not.

      Ivo

    • OK, so I’ve been lying low for a while since there is not much that I can add to the discussion. I do read the comments though and CSD_ChineseSaabDriver’s comments are getting really long in the tooth. It’s fine if you’re rooting for Youngman but you’re starting to sound like a Youngman placed troll.

  17. The behaviour of GM is consistent. Sort of playing along and humming without committing and letting the other party put in a lot of work. At a late stage they issue a statement or or in some other way pulls the plug on things.

    With this kind of tactics they maximize the costs for the “negotiating” party while keeping the waters muddied for other players. Thus making it more difficult to anlyze the situation and focusing on the right path to chose.

    Ignore GM until a deal is struck. If GM later want to play ball and provide components then take advantage of that for as long as needed and or a commercial advantage. After that stage only use GM as a supplier of parts that can be sourced also from another supplier within a few weeks,

    • It looks more and more like GM’s plan was a double homicide of Saab and the company that took Saab over (ultimately SWAN) and GM wanted it to look like murder suicide of Saab by SWAN and keep their fingerprints off of murder weapon.

      • GM is not that competent. Saab is not that important to them, one way or the other. Combine neglect and annoyed distraction at having to deal with such a small problem with GM’s traditional arrogance, and you get the outcome visible today.

  18. Thank you for this extremely valuable information!!!!

    I was considering a baseline corvette despite GM’s actions, now I just can’t stand to think of it!

  19. Is YoungMan the only bidder? I question whether a company that has no expertise in dealing with union employees and union managers, like in Sweden can run a business efficiently. It’s easy to make money in China where unions are banned. The Chinese managers may not know how to deal with unions in the west. How can the Swedish Gov’t /Administrators sell Saab to a company that does not have unions. Weird but I guess it is possible. Follow the money.

  20. GM = Shit cars that are bland and boring. If they ever go bankrupt and no one saves them like last time, no one will really care. Well they will care to save jobs, but in terms of GM’s history of making shit cars, no one will care. As for Saab, if BMW rumours are not real or do not happen, haven’t Yougman said they will buy it without GM and thus for now build the old 93? Its better than nothing and in the long run Saab will prevail with new models based on PheoniX and not shit GM.

  21. Is any of this GM behavior tied to what is going on in France? P-C and Opel have excess capacity. P-C could use the Phoenix technology. Is something happening in France that would cause something to happen in Sweden. GM still owns preferred stock, in the US they would be a creditor just like a supplier.

  22. I said it last week and I was shot down in flames, but I will say it again. Despite the so called claims that the BMW interest was well highlighted by other sources I for one did not know this until it was let loose on here. I said at the time that I thought this was against our previous policy of not starting rumours if certain parties were working away behind the scenes and we would respect their privacy. The fact that there were over 200 posts in response to the BMW rumour breaking loose in here proves the point that I was not alone in my ignorance of any BMW interest. Now here we are yet again questioning that they may well not even have an interest or imminent bid!

    • The rumors about BMW being interested in Saab were circulating on the continent for months, especially in Germany. But since no confirmation could be obtained one way or the other, BMW must be considered not involved until they -or the Receivers- say they are. Mahindra, on the other hand, have confirmed their interest to the media but refrained from releasing any specifics about what they want to do with Saab if they buy it. Or if they have, in fact, placed a bid but that’s of course what the gag agreement with the Receivers was about.

      Ivo

  23. It has to be remembered that GM never wanted Saab to succeed. It only chose buyers that would be unlikely to make a go of it. First Koenigsegg and then Spyker. I mean no offence to either company, but in GM’s eyes neither company was likely to succeed. I’m now certain it only sold Saab as a PR gesture because we in the Saab community were doing quite a reasonable job of making it look bad. When GM previously wanted Saab to fail, why would it now want it to be sold to any buyer that has a chance of making a success of it? I dearly hope this comes back and haunts GM in every possible way. Any buyer of Saab is well rid of it.

    • Even before GM said they were going to sell Saab I was pretty much under the impression Saab was just a pocket of technology for them to drain. They had safety, turbos, the Trionic system (I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure they thought they’d be allowed to steal that tech). I watched a video last week about the turbocharged 1.4 liter in the Chevy Cruze, basically everything they described was a Saab thing. Forged strengthened pistons, sodium filled valves, oil squirters to cool the pistons, water cooled turbos. I mean yeah these features are in a lot of cars, but Saab had them all too, and once they felt good enough to use this kind of thing on their own it’s like Garrett said, sell off Saab to someone without enough finances so you’re not holding the murder weapon.

      • I’m not a huge fan of Ford, but at least when it sells off a brand, at least it shows some sense of honour and decency. With GM, the only way a brand usually escapes it is in a coffin.

  24. I’d be very surprised if GM DID license this technology. They’ve now telegraphed their punches over and over. How can anyone be surprised at GM’s behavior? This guy’s shock is a replay of Muller’s dismay back in December—-how is it that world class executives don’t know what some outsider like me knows? GM SUCKS. Get used to it. Understand it. Work around it or shut up already. By the way, Muller’s support of Brightwell reminds me of politicians backing a candidate—-and when that candidate leaves the race??? If they then throw their support to another candidate, there’s zero credibility. Hopefully he’ll now fade into the background too. I want the Receivers to work on this—-using facts and figures, not opinions. With any damn luck at all, the BMW rumor is real. If not, I hope Mahindra is still interested. Or that Youngman can move forward and thumb their nose at GM without the crappy technology—-somehow. Anything to keep the nameplate alive, I’m game for.

  25. At this time all over the world children are returning home to be under the roof of their parents. Of all the days for this news to happen, SAAB Group has become one of the top defense companies in the world. What a dream if after all these years the prodigal car to return to the family. This would be so right as Dad now has lots of money and “back to the future.”

    I do not want to sound like a broken record as this has been said several times, but it is now time for the rest of our US Saab owners to contact their US Senators and Congressmen. I have already made my position known to both, in the strongest possible terms. Please take up the sword to stop this GM power play because we taxpayers deserve this sale to reimburse us. We are the owners, not the UAW and its minions.

    SAAB Soars.
    http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=39358#comment717804

    • I contacted my Congressman and two Senators last night. I urge all U.S. Saab enthusiasts to do the same. Mention how GM 1) Needed a massive bailout themselves 2) Still owes U.S. Treasury 20 billion dollars 3) Is causing further U.S. unemployment at dealerships by continuing to obstruct the sale of Saab—-not to mention 3000 Swedish jobs. 4) If they license technology, they save the jobs and earn on each Saab sold—-which they can use to help pay down what they owe taxpayers.

  26. I hope BMW buys saab and says very publicly in the most arrogant german manner possible that the will not use gm ip because is does not meet BMW standards…..

  27. PangDa was the first “fictim” of how GM acts, Brightwell is the next! I really hope China now will block GM for building cars in that country and will set GM out of there. I begin to think that is the only way to confirm GM how wrong they are acting! It’s a big shame how that “comany” acts!

  28. It is really nothing new for us.So we should not be childish and naive any more . Thinking about how to save saab by ourself but GM is the right way.Everyone who loves Saab should be clear-headed now!

  29. This might be a bit prejudiced, but if I could judge from what I hear from governments in the middle east in the last few decades, arabs tend to be rather dramatic and absolutist. Black and White, (we’re) Good and (they’re) Evil, It’s THEIR fault, so “GM WANTS TO KILL SAAB” rather fits that line of talk.

  30. After having several not very constructive e-mail conversations with our “good GM friend” James Cain, my impression is, that GM does still not understands how bad its reputation (and the sales figures) in the european markets are. In order to give GM the right feedback I suggest:
    a) do not buy any (new or preowned) GM product (except SAAB)
    b) sell the GM products (except SAAB) in your portfolio and replace it with non GM products (as I did with two Opels)
    c) do not buy any car magazines that has reports or articels with GM products (as I do since 2 years)

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