DI.se is the only source of this piece of News, so don’t get too excited about it, but this could be the missing link in the whole NEVS story.
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Saab’s new major shareholder Kai Johan Jiang said at Wednesday’s press conference that the owner company Nevs secured financing of 7 billion Crowns to manufacture and develop electric cars.
7 billion Crowns are about 997 Million USD, so it is a big amount of money. But it won’t last forever, so they will have to sell cars to keep Saab afloat, and maybe they won’t be able to sell enough EV’s
Development and production of electric cars will also be supplemented with traditional car manufacturing facility in Trollhättan. These cars would be equipped with low carbon output [engines]. It says sources told Dagens Industri on Thursday.
This sounds interesting, but it is not confirmed.
A collaboration with Indian Mahindra said to be an opportunity and facilitate the possibility of access to the Saab brand, as India is the defense group Saab’s most important markets. Nevs have not yet cast got right to the trademark Saab and negotiate with Scania and defense group Saab on the matter.
Di’s sources assume that the Indian company in a partnership will be responsible over the complete development of the Saab Automotobiles Phoenix Platform. The platform used for the production of the new Saab 9-3, designed by designer Jason Castriota. About 40 percent of the development work to be done, for a cost estimated at nearly 2 billion.
The new Saab 9-3 fuel-powered car is expected to hit the market just over two years.
They are saying, that because Saab AB and M&M already collaborate in India, NEVS will try to get M&M on-board to build petrol-powered Saab cars, and use the contacts between M&M and Saab AB to get access to the SAAB brand name.
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As I’ve said before, this is not news as words like “assume” can be found in the text, but in the last months I have noticed that when you saw some smoke, there has always been a fire behind.
Wow. Speculation on top of speculation. We might call it speculation cubed.
There is one thing certain from all this news, however. It appears Angelo’s date with Rachel Pang is done. Kaput.
I’m sorry Angelo.
DI’s print version actually has a quote from Rachel Pang. According to DI, she picked up with “tension in her voice” and said that she couldn’t comment at this point. She referred to the PR department of Youngman.
Ahhhh, opportunity. Tension in her voice. Rachel may need comforting. Angelo – you’re back in!
What happened to Angelo? Havent seen his posts for some time.
Could he already be comforting…. 🙂
sitting in a KFC in Washington DC with the lady on his arm……complete with a bargain bucket !!
Good news everyone!
I found Angelo. He’s totaly censored and his comments can only be seen in Activity part of this site.
Apparently he has touched a sensible nerv somewhere and have been “arrested” by moderators. Well there in “jail” he’s trying to survive on bread and water, and as ive heard daily torture is common on every day-basis. 🙂
Feel free to send him a PM.
Free Angelo! (and free booze to rest of us!) 😀
I agree, free Angelo. He says he is coming around and hopes for the best. He just is a little overly exuberant at times. He does have an Italian name and the Italians are known to be quite passionate in their beliefs.
Funniest darn thing I’ve read all year! LOL
brilliant!! 🙂
Now is not the time to ban Angelo. He could be consoling Rachel and we will miss out on the details.
It’s a shame that if someone doesn’t agree with groupthink they get banned. 🙁
I don’t know why Angelo has been banned, but I can assure you it is not because he doesn’t agree with groupthink. Here and everywhere in the world there are some rules you have to follow, either you follow them or you have to accept the consequences, as easy as that.
I saw he wrote he wasnt banned, but suspended. You can follow his posts on Activity.
An example:”I’m not banned, I’m suspended. I believe it was because I was ”chlidish” about how I expressed my opinion on NEVS not being the correct group to take over Saab.”
Sorry,
I’ve used the wrong word.
I am sure that Angelo would have no problem serving as “the rebound”.
A flicker of hope…that’ll keep me interested in ‘new’ Saab a while longer…….this would be a very good outcome for all.
+1
Agreed.
Absolutely, this is wonderful news if true, and certainly seems like the best path to success – build real cars for the here and now, see if they can make electric cars feasible for the future. Now we have more news to wait for…
Agreed.
I’d buy a performance-oriented Saab (keep it driver-oriented with the fantastic ergonomics the 9-3 always had) and would love a hybrid 9-3, especially if it works more like the BMW ActiveHybrid3 and results in an increase in performance when desired along with improved economy under normal driving conditions. Just one thing: keep the timing chain in the engine – don’t go with a crappy timing belt. The extra durability and maintenance-free nature of a timing chain is well worth the tradeoff for a tiny bit more vibration.
and of course India drive on the same side of the road us in the UK – NEVS seem interested only inChina, and later USA, so UK (Australia/NZ/India) will otherwise miss out on any new models.
+1 Good news indeed. I’m all in favour of the EVs, but this is even better! 🙂 Bring on a new convertible and I’m there, money in hand!
I also agree that Saab should build EVs and Hybrids too, but they should be a gradually increasing part of Saab’s product range. Not the only products.
This makes much more sense than what was said at the press conference yesterday.
+1
Maybe they are free to negotiate deals that actually make (drive)sense now that all the bull* negotiations with the receivers are behind them.
IC engines and car production in THN are the keys to SAAB name also.
Well if this turns out to be true and REAL Saabs get made in Trollhattan again, I will not need to visit the Volvo dealer in a few years time. 😉
Maybe there is a god???
There is indeed! And when we die and go to heaven, we all get a Saab of our choice to drive.
+1
+1, and why Saab not yet agreed to let name go to NEVS, they’re clearly not convinced either….
>Range is completely unpredictable because HVAC, defroster and accessory load is variable
I read some test recently where a Volvo hybrid got the inside temperature up from -20 to 20 degrees C in something like 5 minutes (I do not remember the exact figures, but it got warm rather fast), but then they used some of the fuel to speed up the initial heating when starting the car in cold Swedish winter weather. So I guess that or similar is the standard to compare against for cars sold in cold climate regions.
Heating, though, could be done by another energy source, like ethanol.
Making the car even heavier? Have doubts. It would be like heating a spacecraft with a gas hearth.
Ivo
Err, you are assuming batteries, then? Any information that NEVS wants to use batteries? Or, for what it’s worth, today’s battery technology? I could not find anything in the press conference/documents.
All of the problems you mention would not be present in hydrogen/fuel cell EVs.
Just about everything concerning NEVS makes no sense as far as I’m concerned.
This is the collaboration I have preaching about for the past couple of weeks. NEVS with a car manufacturer could be very good for Saab. NEVS by itself would likely be the opposite. Hopefully sense will prevail and M&M will come on board. I think it is the only real now that Saab now has?
I also think NEVS alone and just producing electric cars would be another road to ruin.I just wish NEVS would come out and tell us all what they really intend to do!
One question that is still in my head is, how important is brand “Saab” for NEVS and M&M? They (NEVS) have already purchased technology and Phoenix. M&M is supposedly coming in as well. Why would they keep production in Trollhättan in case they cant use name “Saab”. What would keep them here? (both NEVS and M&M)
In fairness, NEVS probably doesn’t know exactly what they intend to do. They didn’t acquire an operational car company, they’ve acquired a bunch of stuff, parts of which used to be a car company. NEVS isn’t exactly an experienced car manufacturer.
It rather appears NEVS will “feel” their way through this. Which is brilliant for Tim & SU – it means lots of articles and reader interest on what might be.
I’ve discussed with Tim about an IPO of SU. But looking at FB share price evolution, I’m not sure if it is a good thing. 😉
When Tim does the IPO just make sure he doesn’t utter the words “fully funded business plan”. 😉
This is another interesting development. If it is true it could be great. Both India and China are becoming leaders in cleaner, greener energy and transport so it would be no surprise if Mahindra want to work with NEVS. So let’s wait and see.
Is it only me who interpret “Di’s sources assume that the Indian company in a partnership will be responsible over the complete development of the Saab Automotobiles Phoenix Platform.” as Mahindra will do this _in India_ and not Trollhättan.
So what we got is platform engineering work done in india by Mahindra and battery/electronics done in Japan and a plant in Trollhättan with a few hundred engineers doing what I assume is testing and tuning?
Doesn’t sound very Saabish to me to be honest.
The guys in NEVS may not be so stupid anyway. In this way, they can reassure doubters regarding clean cars. Is this true, it is very smart and a pipe dream for all of us saab enthusiasts. electric cars, yet have access to Swedish / Chinese environmental money.
Nothing’ve said openly of an additional partners such as M & M as a manufacturing more conventional
cars.
Red J,you’ve done this before with your unconfirmed stories! I’ll believe it when it’s announced and confirmed!!!
I agree, NEVS seems like a horse wearing blinkers. It can only see in on direction and not necessarily the right direction. It seems to care little for Saab’s customer base and it’s history. Buying Saab’s car factory and the brand (if it get’s it?) is perhaps only a convenient step in it’s overall plans?
+1
I have trouble imagining how this might work. Can you really have a cohesive model range with mahindra funding bits and nevs funding bits? I assume all the development still happens at Saab in trollhaten so it would be hard to split costs and then profits ect. Maybe I’m not reading this right but it seems a bit messy.
You bring up an interesting point. It might be that history gets to repeat itself? When Saab was with Scania, it was often said that Scania made the profits and Saab spent them. This could be the same with Mahindra and NEVS. Mahindra might be quite profitable selling conventional cars and perhaps hybrids and NEVS selling comparatively small numbers of EVs, might well be quite a loss maker.
Of course they will build petrol/gasoline cars. Can’t live on love or electric cars alone guys & girls
I’ve had my hopes up way too many times before to be crushed again. Until something is confirmed, I won’t believe anything anymore and I’ll stick by my opinion against EV vehicles only.
Sounds good if true, but I have doubts. Why on earth not have even a tiny mention of this partnership in the news conference yesterday>
Because it would have raised questions that could not be answered at this point? It does not seem to be a done deal yet.
Legally
Who knows…Maybe to avoid possibly unconfortable questions about M&M/bidding process/Youngman from reporters.
Aaaaaarh………….. just when we thought the roller coaster was about to stop, we whiz past the finish line and start again. could be the answer though.
A very good description of my feelings right now.
In other words: In order to get the brand name “SAAB”, they may need Mahindra to put pressure on Saab AB? Sounds weird to me. Saab AB has officially stated that they are willing to allow further use of the brand provided production continues in Trollhättan and the new owner is competent, or something to this effect. Seems that this is the case, with or without Mahindra.
Of course, I hope that production starts soon again, for the sake of Trollhättan!
I think Saab AB and Scania AB require volume car production at Trollhättan not just token amounts of cars being made. I think NEVS might have a hard time guaranteeing that without M&M?
NEVS have never built a single vehicle of any sort, in fact NEVS have never built ANYTHING at all. OK maybe they have some funding and a few bright people here and there, but as a company they have absolutely NO experience of making anything at all, therefore I don’t believe that they can do it without the help of a company that knows the industry. Whoever that may turn out to be!
I hope you are aware that they just bought all the know-how they would ever need from SAAB. There are lots of former Saab employees who has already been re-employed and they have produced tons of cars for many years and certainly know how to produce stuff 😉
Lots, yes, up to a point. But many key people are gone. I read that about 1.500 ex-Saab employees are still out of work in THN. That means that the other 2.000+ have found a job elsewhere.
Ivo
Like in those “consulting companies” now eagerly waiting for the next contract from NevSaab? Or in the mining industry up North (as I read somewhere here)? Well, IF I could find a job in mining, deep down under the soil, I for one would not change back to a lousy job in a stinking high tech company 😉
Mining engineers generally don’t work underground.
Ivo
More maybe be on their way back to Saab.
“Darkened loss.
Volvo Cars CEO Stefan Jacoby argued in May that the company made a profit of 1.6 billion last year. Basically the car maker made a resounding loss of 7,3 billions SEK.”
If Mahindra indeed would build SAABs under the SAAB name would NEVS be able to use the SAAB Brand? this is getting more confusing by the day. An EV must supplement a conventional fleet not be alone. If SAAB could not sell the fantastic
NG 9-5 how will they market electric. This is a serious question I am asking.
I wonder where Toyota fits in in this equation… could it be that it is Toyota that want to build their own cars in the Saab factory or is there interest only in providing the platform for the small EV1?
Yes, strange to hear Toyota and Saab in the same sentence – i.m.o. complete opposite philosophy’s…
It’s not so bad when you think about it. Toyota is mostly known for it’s reliability as does Saab. GM on the other hand was known for less flattering things. Opel was not much of a car before the THN engineers were married into the family so to speak.
PS. Anyone else hate those Turbo badges on all the Astra’s and Insignia’s nowadays?
Not to mention the Insignia Turbo X…. :-/
If true, bring it on!
Whew, I should take a cure. Fear I am getting paranoia from all these speculations, could and would should have and may be. Hope time will heal this madness. I need a time machine to travel into 2014.%-(
Sounds like the missing link in NEVS business proposition.
Actually, at the press conference Mattias Bergman from nevs said something like “Our main markets are China, US and India, but more on that later”
M&M could make this puzzle complete.
Btw, whats GM’s stance in question about M&M+IP rights for 9-5/9-4X? So far i know they refuse to let chinese companies to use it due to allegedly competition on chinese market. So how about an indian company? Is it same there?
Since NEVS would still be involved, I’m guessing GM would still be just as recalcitrant as before. But the bigger Saab’s owners are, the more pressure that can be applied to GM. In any event, I doubt that GM will build any more 9-4xs’.
No idea how following works, but is it possible to make a contract like “here are IP, it will cost you X% of every sold car, and you may sell both 9-5 and 9-4X allover the world EXCEPT China.” Both signs the contract and thats it.
I mean is it possible, generaly, to do something like that?
GM will not be at all interested in, or worried by NEVS! At this point in time, NEVS as a business does not even truly exist, it has no turnover, it sells nothing, it has never sold anything and it has never made anything. It is merely an entity with some funds, some ideas and some apparently switched on people. BUT…..can they make cars and profits? I doubt it, not without help anyway!!!!
I have been out of the loop for a few days but I rad that NEVS had bough the rights to the 9-3 platform. I never found out who from & what that meant – id someone could enlighten me.
I still dont thing Saab AB is going to let NEVS use the name.
“Low carbon output” – does that mean the MY12 9-3? And if so, does it follow that production of that car will soon re-commence as an interim measure?
Be nice if it does mean that, but who knows?
I would really like to see some BioPower Saabs until the electric cars are mature enough for the public. BioPower would fit NEVS bio mass production philosophy. A recent study indicates that new production technologies for developing ethanol would cover a great part of the Swedish consumption. There are a lot of unused farmlands in Sweden where it would be possible to grow fuel crops.
It would be nice if Mahindra could procude the cars together with NEVS under the Saab brand.
Well then, enjoy ruining your landscape. When driving through Germany, all I can see are huge mono cultures of corn and rape. (I exagerrate just a bit)
A cynical person might wonder if this just a ploy so NEVS can get to use the SAAB brand name.
That’s why there are contracts and clauses 😉
Swedish R&D center, BioPower-eXWD/Hybrids and a local minimum production requirement (X % of all cars manufactured) would be a good start.
I kinda like your idea.
Considering how direct NEVs was with the Chinese market and almost no reference to the other global markets (mainly the west) I would guess this makes sense.
Once all is said and done I can really see this happening once all of the contracts are signed and dotted.
I really doubt Mahindra is going to build petrol Saab 9-3’s. Why help a competitor? The only way they would if they are acting as a paid consultant and help NEVS get the factory started again and later help develop the petrol powered Phoenix. Or if NEVS does a joint venture with Mahindra.
Actually, what NEVS should do is partner with Youngman or Mahindra. Youngman really wants the Saab name. If Youngman helps design cars in return for having NEVS sell them to Youngman at a cheap price (like Magna did for Saab 9-3 Cabriolets/Convertibles), then that is not so bad.
Here’s AutoBlog’s article;
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/14/saab-to-hire-200-engineers-might-build-gas-cars-with-mahindra/
Mahindra a competitor??!!! Please check their website.
I don’t think you will see these cars globally. If it happens at all it will be for China and China only.
😉
Well I just checked out the NEVS website, it is still as it was! No update regarding their intentions, in fact nothing new at all. At best this is not looking very professional, if they don’t even update their website, what chance have they got? Why have they not used the website to broadcast news of their wonderful acquisition? As someone else has already stated on SU, the website looks cheap and looks like it was done by a kid. The first thing they need is a PR man I guess! LOL!!!!
They need a web designer. Guys, I am available for hire 🙂
In my opinion, the first thing they need to do is to finalize the deal, finalize all negotiations with Saab and others, hire staff, develop new Saabs etc. PR and a flashy web site is useful when they have something to sell, but who cares in 18 months what the web pages looked like today? 🙂
Actually, their COO preseneted as “Operativt ansvarig” is a PR-guy working for Sprintime, previously Exportrådet.
Doesn’t strike me as the type of person who set-up a car company.
The first thing they need is to work out all their details, getting all the right people… I think their website is item number 445679 on their list 😉
You should cool down Skipper, you’ve got a lot of attitude and you’re waving around your opinions time and time again… take it easy and watch, you might just learn something 😉
Yes Tim, I do have attitude and I am waving my opinions around time and time again, that is what people do in open forums such as SU. Yes I really should cool down Tim you are right! 😉
There is a comments policy in effect — even if we have not been good at pointing it out (or enforcing it).
Please state your opinion once and be done with it. I know I’m not good at following this rule myself, but we all need to get better at not repeating our personal beliefs over and over again. Too much noise and too little content.
Yes Rune, I am well aquainted with the policy. However if a comment is made which needs the same/similar response to one made previously, then a similar response would obviously need to be made. I shall of course bear in mind your views and those of Tim. I shall attempt to make my opinions follow in line with what is deemed to be an acceptable belief, with more content and less noise. I shall try to keep the status quo wherever possible.
Well Skipper, from the looks of your photo you’re a man of my own heart!
Personally, I’ve been enjoying your comments and think they’ve been mostly valid.
Thanks Brian. The photo? Oh you mean a girl on each arm of course (and neither of them is my wife) LOL!!!
According to http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/fordon_motor/bilar/article3494416.ece the PhoeniX will be built with hybrid drive.
There’s one more disturbing piece of information in this article:
“Nevs har nämligen ännu inte fått rätten till varumärket Saab och förhandlar med Scania och försvarskoncernen Saab om saken.”
Transl.: Now Nevs has not yet got to right to the trademark Saab and is negotiating with Scanis and the defense company Saab on this matter.
Is this true? I mean, Nevs bought all of Saab, and Saab has the right to use the brand name, so why should the New Saab not be allowed to use the brand name?
Well, there are many questions left unanswered and I believe the rumors of NEVS negotiating with other companies for production of the hybrid version of the Phoenix.
What makes a Saab a real Saab can get confusing very fast. I would be surprised if these negotiations could reach a conclusion before the whole picture becomes crystal clear.