It’s obvious from comments that there are many disappointed SU readers today. The Saab we knew is essentially history, and a clean start focusing on future technology is what’s ahead. The extent to which NEVS plans to go to full electric has not been elaborated on, but I have a strong feeling that they will be going the hybrid route as their own graphics discuss PHEVs (Plugin-Hybrid Electric Vehicles). What I find most heartening about the new owners is that they are looking to pursue cutting edge propulsion technology to contribute to the most economical, environmentally sound, and best driving experience. This isn’t unlike the first Saab engineers using a two-stroke engine, or the addition of a turbo to a mainstream vehicle that made the 99 so damn enjoyable to drive. Electrification has come a long way and will continue to rapidly improve well before the first new Saab is sold in 2013-14.
For those of you who remember my earliest comments from when Swade was around, you might know that I’ve been pushing Saab to get into the EV/PHEV space for some time (as far back as 2009). To me the argument is simple: with the right business model and scale, a manufacturer can just as easily charge the same for an electrified powertrain as a premium or near premium car such as Saab, while giving the consumer the benefit of added reliability, stronger off the line performance and much more insulation from fluctuating fuel prices. It’s clear that the entire industry isn’t going to switch over night, but I’d rather be with one of the companies embracing the technology and innovating with it early. To me, Saab should own the innovation in this space, and it’s clear that NEVS shares this goal.
As I’ve been so interested in electric cars the past few years, I’ve followed the research and design of battery and propulsion technology. The through the road eAAM hybrid was truly exciting to me, as it delivered high payback with low cost. However, as I described in my dream of a Hybrid Performance model for Saab last year, I could see electrification taking a much stronger role in the new Saab. Imagine turning a knob that goes from hypermiling performance that gives you 600km per charge to a high performance boost button that summons up 500+hp. That’s the kind of instantaneous and flexible performance electric motors gives you. All the talk of variable compression ratios that Saab had been working on for years becomes a software, not hardware problem, as battery chemistry continues to be refined to deliver stronger charges and densities. From NEVS own statements it’s clear they will be going with Japanese battery companies, which leads me to think Panasonic. Their cylindrical batteries are the gold standard for EVs now, but there are several new companies, notably Envia, which are promising much stronger and cheaper batteries. No doubt the Japanese are hot on the heels and have their own top secret innovations, and hopefully now that Saab is so intertwined with them we’ll see them first on a Swedish made product.
For those of you who haven’t had the opportunity to drive an electric car or PHEV using the latest lithium ion tech, I’d strongly recommend you find a way to try it. Realistically imagine yourself owning one and fitting it into your daily routine. I think most of us here would agree a hybrid that allows us to go unlimited miles is preferential to an electric car, but if the added cost to fit a motor generator adds cost and decreases range, would you be able to get by with an electric car and simply rent the PHEV? Is there a business model you could see working for you before you just go and trash the idea of an eSaab completely? Think before you react, is all I ask.
Everybody assumes they also acquired the Saab brand and name. They haven’t yet, according to their press presentation and official press release. If the NEVS 1EV is going to be called just that, is it still a Saab? Is the factory in Trollahattan going to have the Saab name on it? If not, will we still care about Saab or is it just a Chinese company with a factory in Sweden? Too many questions about the brand, no answers yet. The 2014 NEVS Saab may not even look like a Saab.
Maybe they didn’t finalize a deal on acquiring the name because they werent 100% sure they would win the bid?
Let´s hope so. Although I get a curious feeling about that. Saab should be sold on the whole they told us.
From what we’ve obviously heard the stumbling block was with Saab AB defense, and is in the process of being worked out. Even if it weren’t to be worked out (which indications are that it will be), I’d still want a PHEV from Sweden.
You can already buy a PHEV from Sweden, at least in Europe. 😉
It has only a problem, it looks like a Volvo. 😎
You just beat me to it, Red J 🙂 A Swedish PHEV is already a reality.
How much does it cost? And how much more is it than the petrol/diesel version?
Never a mind, a PHEV (or hybrid) is not the same as an electric-only vehicle. Apples and oranges.
“Everybody assumes they also acquired the Saab brand and name”
They can not do that. “Saab” brand it is not part of saab automobile. They can negotiate with Saab AB (airplanes and defense) use this name, but they can not buy.
Not quite, the Saab brand is co-owned by Saab Automobile, Saab AB and Scania. NEVS need to get an ok from the other co-owners. They have stated that they are ok with it if production continues in Sweden and they have the same view of the brand.
To me this is only a technicality, I´m sure the cars will be branded as Saabs. I hope they look and drive like Saabs to, but I´m not sure.
It will be even more confusing when Saab AB, Saab Parts AB and SAAB NEVS AB use the same Saab name but are three entirely different companies. I can’t think of any reason why Saab AB would let NEVS use the Saab name.
If Saab AB doesn’t allow the the name Saab, they can use eSaab, LOL…
Why did Saab AB and Scania let Spyker use the name and logo? They formed an agreement, which both Saab AB and Scania have since said they would be willing to consider for any new owner of Saab Automobile. What does Saab AB stand to lose by withholding the name? Their favorability in Sweden would plummet. They know it’s in everyone’s best interest to do as they did with Spyker, and license the name to NEVS.
I really do not care what the new company calls what ever vehicle they produce, I just want my extended warranty that I paid for with the purchase of a “certified” vehicle to be activated again! Want to bet on that one!!??
Excellent, well said!
I’ve driven a Nissan LEAF and found it a great drive. Instant power (up to 350Nm, immediately!) very, very smooth and sooo quiet. I liked it and even at 109 miles maixmum range can see a place for it in my family’s life. But, if Saab can do better (and I’m sure than can) then I’ll wait on buying a LEAF and hopefully buy an “eSaab”, be it an EV or a hybrid.
Personally, I can’t wait to embrace the future.
+99!
Everyone is complaining about how NEVS is going to kill Saab and run it further into the ground. I say this: Obviously the old way Saab was run was not working since they went into bankruptcy. So if the old way doesnt work (cars costing too much), then throw all that away and start fresh. New business plan and new goals.
And EVs are going to cost less? Certainly not ones with more range than a Chevy Volt.
But what if one of the Saab options is a hybrid? Would you look at that?
So far it looks like you would only be able to look at that if you live in China.
Does not look like NEVS has any intention to go globally or to US in near future
Saab has a always been a driver’s car. So you are saying, Jeff, that we should enjoy a new EV for just driving around town and for trips rent the driver’s car? Usually you cannot have too much fun driving around town due to the traffic. It is on the weekend trips that I usually enjoy my Saab 9-3 the most.
I think NEVS plan is that we use a car for the city (those that can plug one in) and a bicycle for the country. You know, just like China.
Seriously? *Rolls eyes*
Ha, ha, made me laugh…so true!
Better yet, they can make a SAAB. NEVS peddle car, you never have to charge it, worry about gas, and you get and awesome workout in the process!
“The New SAAB Peddle Car” It’s not what you ever expected from the company founded by aircraft engineers, but it’s better than taking the bus!
Normally, I would agree to you. But I don’t, for the mere reason that you live under US legislation (while I live in Germany). And that means you will not drive faster than 60 mph, right? Well, then the car you asked for already exists. Its the Tesla Model S with 85 kWh capacity. According to the Tesla website, at 60 mph, it has a range of 300 miles.
Probably, you will now reply that this car is very expensive. But this is a different argument. 😉
I just imagined all the EV´s at the roadside, empty battery, people looking for a breakdown truck to get to the next plug. Perhaps a new business concept for the future, I should re-educate. 😉 Just a joke – long live Saab and don´t forget BioHybrid !
Hoards of Saab 9-3 drivers chasing after a petrol tank …….. [wink]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmf-HCCZYOg&feature=related
i agree with all the comments here, will only buy it as a hybrid.. have no desire to get stuck with dead battery 2 miles away from my house…
Long life Saab. Curious to see what is coming up. But the new NEVS-products must have the name SAAB!
+1. An electric motor will have kick as torque all the way.
Yes, but for how far is the question.
Torque is nice, but without the sound or turbo kick where’s the fun?
Where´s the fun when there is no oil? Karl-Erling Trogen explained that the total oil production in the world would not even cover the Chinese demand if the Chinese had the same percentage of cars per capita as America do. It’s not a viable way forward.
But perhaps we can run on ethanol and other fuels while we wait for the batteries to be more efficient. I would also like to see a hybrid.
Sure, but even if China introduce cars with moderation they will still need a hell lot of fuel, which may not be there. They need to invest in EV. Check out the slides on Swades site http://www.swadeology.com/2012/06/slides-nevs-saab-acquisition-press-conference/. No one can turn away from the strain on the environment if we double the amount of fossil fueled cars over the next ten years. I still think this is the way to go, but it’s a long way and we need many alternatives during this time, like ethanol and hybrids.
Some guy comes along……We´re talking about the previous president of Volvo Trucks. Those are guys to take serious from my point of view.
Well put, Jeff.
Could you better explain the context of “economical” in your sentence, “What I find most heartening about the new owners is that they are looking to pursue cutting edge propulsion technology to contribute to the most economical, environmentally sound, and best driving experience.”
Your post explored the environmental and driving experience aspect but economical has to be in a certain context or multiple contexts. I (and others) would be interested in what you were thinking.
Very well said, Allan.
Totally agree!
Not agree.
Hear hear! Furthermore, how many of us, at least here in the US, own only one car? We’re in the same boat as we drive almost every weekend from Upstate NY to the Lake in Vermont, but for that trip we need an Xterra (24mpg!) for the amount of tools and construction stuff we carry anyhow. Still, an eSAAB wold fit in great as a 2nd for now, and if they drop in a gas/diesel gen set, very easily done, it could become a primary vehicle as well. Embrace change!
That’s exactly how I feel. I have my Saab convertible for fun in the sun (and my wife!), my CLS for clients and long distance cruising and I can see an eSaab for my daily running around town and cities and for short business trips. A win-win I think! 🙂
What about those of us who have a 9-3 hatchback with a sun roof for….fun in the sun, long distance cruising, and daily running around town – to work – the store- etc.? 🙂 That is why I bought the multipurpose Saab. I needed a new multipurpose Saab soon, but it does not look like they will build one for me.
If NEVS is planning on a hybrid option, then why haven’t they said so? If this is their plan, they should get in front on this and explain to everyone. Either they are not going to offer a hybrid or they’re PR & marketing people have already fumbled the ball. I could at least live with a hybrid Saab.
🙂 My youngest daughter has told me never to buy a Toyota, Honda or Nissan (well, with the exception of the GT-R). I’m afraid the Lexus name plate won’t fool her.
Disclaimer: She’s not NipponoFoob, she does like Mitsubishi’s, dunno why, I think the current crop is pretty ugly.
I think there are plenty of, relatively cheap, Viggen alternatives popping up. I’ll even consider a Ford Focus when my Viggen goes to Valhalla (assuming that the Focus ST will be available in the US). In Europe I would have a closer look at the Renault Megane RS.
But Lexus? Nope, overprized das boring.
The Focus ST won’t be available here, sadly.
To many, Lexus is overpriced and boring. I’ll admit, perhaps they lack the “soul” of a Saab, but they are fine and very reliable vehicles of high quality. In fact, I’ve spent more on my Viggen last year than I have on all my Lexus in their entire lifetime. No joke….
Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t take a new 2014 CT200h over a 2014 Saab 9-3h though! 😉
The Focus ST will be here in the states in less than 6 months. You can already design one on the Ford website. Looking forward to it–it’s going to replace one of our 9-3s.
oh wow you’re right! there is an image of the turbo gauge up to 1.2 bar (how weak, Viggen is 2.0 bar… lol)
Move to China and maybe you would be able to buy an eSAAB next year. NEVS guys do not seem to be interested in US or global market. As for us in USA for example we will just have to see leftover dealers shutting doors down or switching brands.
They specifically mentioned not only the US but President Obama’s goal of 1 million EVs by 2015. So yes, they are clearly going after Western markets. Where you’re making the assumption about their lack of interest perhaps comes from their eagerness to embrace the east too, but maybe because that’s what China and India want to encourage most. The last thing you need to fear is NEVS ignoring the core markets that Saab has served for decades.
Mentioning Obama…like that’s a real plus. The guy’s a loser. Everything he touches fails: solyndra, Ener1, A123 systems, Sunpower, Spectrawatt…I could easily keep going. Sorry , but mentioning a man who has never even run a pop stand does NOT instill confidence.
The reference to Obama wanting a million electric cars is very distressing. As with most of Obama’s statements, it is pure fantasy. With massive government funding the market is still not there for pure EV and the sales figures show it. And to build a business plan on the unsupported statement of a politican who is about to be soundly dismissed from power is folly. Oh did I mean Maud ! Well no, not this time.
Great News, still saving for my 900 Turbo Convertible… Bet it´s gonna be the only one in Mexico!
The press release and 25-slide presentation that was referenced from the NEVS web site can be found at this link…
http://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/pressroom/national-electric-vehicle-sweden/pressrelease/view/national-electric-vehicle-sweden-ab-acquires-the-main-assets-of-saab-automobile-771509
when my Saabs go to the scrap yard (which, i hope, will take some time before it actually happens), i think i will change back to Citroën.since Saab is not planning to produce any normal vehicle (i.e.: pertrol-powered and/or turbo-charged) anymore, Saab is as dead as a door nail.
changing back to Citroën means going back to driving an XM or Xantia…
(or should i buy a Nissan Stagea?….)
Really sad about this outcome. I either work from home or travel across the country (which I do regularly) in my Saab for business reasons. I have just back from an 800 km round trip today and I don’t imagine an electric car will meet my needs. A hybrid – maybe, but I’m not inspired. I will hold out for a new Saab, but unless the design and performance is consistent with previous expectation I’ll be driving an A5 within the next year or so.
R.I.P. SAAB 🙁 For me Saab in Thn and Sweden is dead. The only Saab car I know about is BAIC in China. I will forever drive the Saabs 1950-2011. Never another swedish car for me. Only have to say, “Too much monkey business”. Bye.
It seems to me that their market is China and let’s face it that market can monopolize their business for the foreseeable future. Maybe in Sweden and some of the other European countries they may have plans to market and sell cars but for us here in the US I would say we are a long shot to ever see a car again with the Saab marquee. The factory can only produce so many units and I would think they will all be spoken for in what is now, or soon to be, the largest car market in the world.
JTMav
What ticks me off is both NEVS or the Swedish government could have given some hope to present owners of 2010-2011 Saabs by saying “We will take care of you.” Neither did that and that’s really too bad. I want to know were us 2010-11 owners (and other creditors) can file suit against the SweGov. There was a bid which potentially could have taken care of all of us and it was rejected.
In one way this is a great day for Saab (and all the people that have worked for Saab) and all the loyal Saab-Fans arround the world. But just waiting for some EV-Cars will not bring back the Saab-buyers (as they can actually order the new Volvo Plug-In Hybrid or many other real EV’s). So my wish to NEVS is: Restart production of actual 9-3 portfolio asap in Trollhättan.
And those 100-200 are engineers and designers. Lots of ppl are production personell, that will not see any employment in 1,5 years more.
The crux of the problem is this: Will EVs become viable in 2020 or 2040? NEVS should try to deliver solutions that aren’t ahead of their time by 50 years.
I think it will go faster than we can imagine today. Let’s wait and see.
Totally agree R.I.P. SAAB
+1 Now I`m really nervous.
Didn’t you hear? NEVS is gonna miracle their EV’s to run on sustainable fairy dust & unicorn farts.
I hope the best for the former employees of SAAB and the community but I understand that today for me SAAB is officially dead. The fat lady has completed her song and has left the building. When I heard the news I thought of Solyndra – failure and Chevy Volt – failure. This deal as I have read will not work in any shape or fashion.
Good memories no great memories but time to move on. BMW 3 series, Audi A4, Mini ? Choices Choices.
And here is the small clip for safety engineers to work on future SAAB.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAmJPNV4ma4&feature=player_embedded
That car was audi, occupant died
Thanks Jeff for your well written article. I agree with you – even though I still hope to see the new 9-3/Phoenix available as a hybrid.
To paraphrase Bill Clinton: “Its the batteries, stupid.”
We are not there with the batteries. Not even close. Every time I try any electric powered tool with batteries (and many with cords) I end up hugely disappointed. If you can’t make simple small electrically powered tools that have anywhere near the capability of a similar gasoline powered tool, how on earth do you expect the public to think you could make an electric car comparable to a gasoline one?
Try the new line of Ryobi 40V lithium ion tools. You’ll be amazed, I know I was. They work better than any of the gas mowers or trimmers I’ve ever used. Again, don’t judge what you don’t know.
I’ll take my Shindaiwa; thanks but no thanks.
I don’t fear the news as much as I just don’t want or like what I’m hearing. Time will tell.
Will the assets of the former Saab Automobile AB and its sister companies (minus Parts) be reconstituted into a new AB with NEVSAB as its “holding company” or majority shareholder, or will Saab’s assets just become the assets of NEVSAB? May have a bit to do with whether NEVSAB can/will use the Saab trademark…
+1
The cord/apartment issue is definitely being addressed, with reinforced proprietary cables probably being the preferred solution. Within the next 2-3 years OEMs are looking to deploy wireless charging solutions which have 90%+ efficiency, meaning you park above the charger which is embedded in the spot and walk away. If you have the luxury of a garage or live in a complex with spots that feature this tech, you’re great, otherwise you’re still going to need a wire that can’t be cut or unplugged by strangers.
Great article, Jeff. I whole-heartedly agree that Saab, being known for innovation, should jump on the chance to be a technological leader in the next automobile revolution. PHEV and EVs (in my opinion) are the future of auto tech and Saab is placed not as a niche, but as a mass-market deliverer with the new strategy that is planned. Exciting!
I am guessing that the customer profile for these products will change. The vehicles (if they compete) will need to be mass produced and sold in volume to acquire a return. If too many people drive them they will become common/popular and not individual and therefore may not be palatable to the existing Saab customer profile.
If they end up being twice the price of the 2010/2011 Saabs then they will not be affordable to the existing Saab customer profile either. Long range EVs are pretty expensive these days.
Exactly. Well said OddJob.
Must check Saab status:
2 Saabs in garage tonight.
All Saabs started and ran today.
Gas station on corner still there tonight.
Wife didn’t sell her Saab today.
Have money to buy gas.
Mobil 1 still makes 0W-40.
So, I’m still 100%Saab, until I’m not.
Just a thought.
When I hear about NEVS, it is not much different from Eastman Kodak, RIM (Blackberry), or Enron getting a life line. Great for that company!
However, it is bad for the loyal Saab owners. We are loyal because of the Saab product, not because some company has a 4 letter name that starts with SA. (I was about to write “a 4 letter name that starts with S” but people might think of dog poo!)
Fortunately NEVS won’t be using NiMH batteries…
Is Lithium much better? I think it has it’s own disposal problems.
Yeah but ethanol is taking up land that is used for making food and causing food prices to rise. Huge problem in the US with corn being converted to ethanol rather than sold as food.
Given the low-low prices of grain at the time, I would be inclined to believe that corn too was dirt cheap before they figured out how to make biofuel from it. Before that point, wasn’t many farmers contemplating throwing in the towel? (why farm a piece of land if there’s no profit..?)
Grain prices also “soared” during that time, not because anyone turned grain into ethanol, but because the price of oil made it more expensive to grow and transport.
Do a calculation, and you will change your mind. I did (and I started with Biodiesel in 1999). Look up how much ground is needed to produce Ethanol (including, of course, the ground needed to produce the Ethanol needed to produce the Ethanol, i.e. fertilizer production, harvesting,transport, fermentation, destillation, etc.). 4 litres of Ethanol are needed for one litre that reaches the tank.
This is the ultimate goal: Replace 4 billion tons of mineral oil, and five billion tons of coal. Each year.
Enjoy.
I hate to be the fly in the soup or the “prophet” but the future (closer than you think) is not the electric car or the PHEVs… it is solar and bio fuel unless you like to workout like the Flintstones. 🙂
it´s not fear that we feal, it´s frustration!
never will be an electrical vehicle in two years be the match-winner in the market, never!
perhaps it will be in 20 years – i then will be 75 years old and it´s not really interesting for me…