Youngman Is Still Trying

Just came across an article posted on Di.se and TTELA stating that Youngman has today submitted another offer for all of Saab. What does all this mean? Your guess is as good as mine. It states that they have shown evidence that they have the money but is that the money to purchase only or is this showing they have the money to invest into a future for Saab as well? Who knows?
Di.se

Chinese Youngman has added a new bid for SaabChinese Youngman consider themselves not at all be looking out the game in terms of the sale of Saab’s bankruptcy estate. The company presented on Friday a new bid.

“Our revised bid this morning includes all parts of Saab’sbankruptcy estates, including spare parts company. And our offeralso means that the state and the auctions will be full compensation for the debt which is in bankruptcy, that is 2.2 billion. Youngman has also provided evidence the money available, “said attorney JohnNylén, a spokesman for Youngman in Sweden.

“Youngman has now accelerated the ambition tobuy Saab and start production as soon as possible. We have hadongoing contact with the administrators, but we hope to get into an intensive contract discussions now.”

Youngman’s lawyer also adds this in comments:

Nylén also tells TT that Youngman has received “acknowledgmentletter” from the Chinese “super ministry” NDRC.

This letter also means that Youngman is the only chinese company allowed to purchase Saab’s assets and that no other chinese citizen is allowed in any constellation to acquire Saab’s assets.

It would appear that the possible road blocks that have been present in the past with the NDRC are not there now. As with any stories coming out right now, I would strongly caution reading too much into anything right now as a lot of what is said to and in the media changes. It would be great to have a set deadline where after said point all offers that are to be looked at have to be in by and that this nonsense of the never ending back and forth is gone.

162 thoughts on “Youngman Is Still Trying”

  1. After contemplation that NEVS is absolutely a dead end for current Saab owners I must look upon Youngman as the only hope, even though it has appeared by Youngmans actions they could not do it.

    • I am not as negative about NEVS as some here, but there is no question that NEVS means a rather abrupt break with Saab’s current and past traditions — to the point that I wonder if they are even going to use the Saab brand name.

      The are two reasons why NEVS would not want Saab Parts. (1) they intend on a complete break with Saab’s past, don’t intend on using the Saab brand in the future, and don’t really care about current Saab customers. Or, (2) they can’t afford the additional capital expenditure that would be required to buy Saab Parts.

      Neither explanation gives me confidence in a NEVS acquisition. Personally I lean towards explanation #2, I think they’d love to have some brand loyalty but they just don’t have the upfront cash to acquire it.

      Which makes me think that NEVS is a lot like Spyker, underfunded and dependent on unknown future capital investment, only with a worse business plan.

      I do not understand how the receivers, acting in their fiduciary capacity, can choose NEVS over Youngman (if, indeed, Youngman has a larger bid and has the money in a European bank, ready to execute a deal).

  2. Good if true. Youngman isn’t exactly at the top of my wish list, but I rank them higher than NEVS. Venture capitalists making use of tax havens sit really at rock bottom as far as I’m concerned.

      • I think it is very simple. The administrators are under the thumb of the Swedish government, which has stated many times in the past that they want to get rid of all that nasty, dirty heavy industry. They neglect the fact they will not be able to afford their nice, clean, little paradise after they’ve done with manufacturing.
        Anyway, NEVS fits perfectly in their daydreams. All Swedes will be happily zipping around their green pastures in their electric golf carts. Kind of Teletubbies meets Wall-E…….

        • Gerrit: It’s interesting—because it’s extremely dirty, heavy industry to mine for the materials that are needed for these mammoth batteries—-and also disposal of the batteries will be a challenge at some point. I know Sweden won’t be making batteries, but they probably will be stuck getting rid of them as they run out—-and if they try to recycle them, that will be dirty business too. Of course, they can probably outsource it all (great for the Swedish workers, huh?). So much for “saving the planet.” It’s really about shipping the dirty jobs somewhere else.

  3. About “acknowledgement letter” from article (explanation):
    -This means that Youngman is the only Chinese company which is allowed to buy Saab’s assets. It also means that Chinese citizens, nor in other formats/constallations can acquire Saab’s assets.-

      • Not sure at all how it works in NEVS/Hong Kong case. Tehnicaly Hong Kong belongs to China, and all who live there are chinese citizens. Anyone who can shed some light on this?

        • This is most likely the end for Nevs…. If you were chinese – swedish businessman with majority of your business in china. You would not risk angering the NDRC. They Will and can close down your business if you work against their ruling. YM has done this before… Remember!!

        • Yeah but some previous post just reported NDRC’s control was not applying in case of NEVS, as the ‘Hong Kong registered company’ is headquartered in the British Virgin Islands… Somewhat confusing.

  4. I’m not not resting my hope on any one bidder, I’m am completely open to whoever takes over. I am getting tired as to how many times people are able to come back to the table though and think it is important to just get this settled, no more games, just get it done.

    • In a way I would be most happy to see a joint venture between Youngman and NEVS.
      By pooling resources I think the future of SAAB could be brighter.

    • Re: ”It would be great to have a set deadline where after said point all offers that are to be looked at have to be in by and that this nonsense of the never ending back and forth is gone.”

      I agree, but it appears from the past that even a higher bidder does not automatically get the bounty.

      It certainly looks [if NEVs] is the current preferred bidder by politicians, also] they would have got a bargain & without even having to buy the whole lot.
      The bits they did not want end up costing the Swedish tax payer money [Parts is said to be worth only 1.1 billion & tools even less].

      If YM can show they have the money + future investment, then they should be in line for the contracts.
      THN, also gets alot more employment.

      • Our swedish government would for sure like to see someone that buys the whole package as the buyer, if they´ll loose money on Saab parts they will be in deep trouble.

    • No one wants to see this end more than I do—-I’ve been saying for months that it’s taking too long. However—-and this is a big however—-if stalling it another few weeks opens the door for ANYONE other than NEVS, let the wait begin. Ummmm….stay calm and carry on.

  5. “Youngman has now accelerated the ambition tobuy Saab and start production as soon as possible.”
    Production of what?

    “…we hope to get into an intensive contract discussions now.”
    Lasting how many extra months?

    Again, if they are so eager to buy Saab Automobile, why didn’t they do it one year ago when there actually were a functioning factory, all the key personnel present, a network of dealership, some faith in the brand, and some technologies (like e-AAM and the BMW agreement) needed to move along? Why didn’t they presented the money needed a year ago just to keep production running or in december just to avoid bankruptcy? Why, a least, didn’t they present a bid already a few months ago that covered what the most demanding creditor (SNDO) wanted? Because what the SNDO wanted has hardly been a secret ever since the EIB loan were finalized.

    This is just ridiculous…

      • Since 2009 I have wanted (or, rather, thought Saab Automobile deserved) an owner with money enough to buy it, run it non-profitable for at least 4 years, and work on a reasonable business plan with new models/technologies. What I did not want was 1) some millionaire playboy looking for a trophy, 2) some businessmen looking to build a house of cards out of loans and subsidies before exiting, or 3) a company that don’t know PR and obviously do not have the body enough to cash the checks their mouth is constantly writing.

        Rather simple, I would say. But I’m not the one deciding and I do not claim to know what’s going on behind closed doors. I am just asking some (from my standpoint, at least) relevant questions.

    • it’s not ridiculous, it’s the way of asian culture and Chineese way of making high level talks. We say it’s wrong and immature, and they do, whaty they used to in their culture, don’t blame YM for this kind of behaviour, who ever had a possibility to make any talks with Chineese companies knows, that they do strane volts and play on the border of bribes and good manners. It’s just a cultural difference. That’s why we don’t believe them, because we don’t trust this kind of behaviours. Just like it was with buildings highways in Poland by the Chinese consortium COVEC. They failed, because nobody was talking their language of making business.

      On the other hand, “the other Swedish car making company” looks like rising in the “small Asian hands”. Is it a way to rise for Phoenix? We’re all affraid of it 🙂 let’s wait.

  6. Nonsense is right. I think Youngman has demonstrated it (they) does not have the maturity to continue negotiating for Saab in good faith. That alone should count them out. Bring on the electric (or Indian) Saabs. This is insane.

  7. We can say this about Youngman, they are not giving up without one heck of a fight. I question whether there was ever much of a concern with the Chinese government approving them. But maybe. If the receivers are really only about earning the most from the Saab estate they should probably select Youngman; although, if there does have to be a deadline, which seems like it should have passed long ago. Not much to do but watch and wait. And let’s not fight with each other, make derogatory comments about each other’s governments, gas prices, and other matters beyond our immediate control.

    • ……and all has happended is that TODAY another (or re-confirmed) bid has been submitted – no word if even yet there has been ‘contact’, so not inconsistent.

      I’m up for a final battle to get best future for Saab with heritage rather than a ‘new’ Saab without any roots.

    • free accomandation at my house if NEVS dont get SAAB……For anyone thats wants a break in UK, to get over all this……i will keep my word, may even throw breaky in

      • Lol, can I be put on the attendees list, please?
        So many dreams to tick that will make my way into the good old isle country.
        Been there each year in the last few, but still a good couple of visits remain for sure.. So I could make a good use of it. 🙂

  8. Another part of article:
    -Youngman is pretty convinced that they have placed the highest bid, and including that they have shown to have access to the money, Youngman consider themselves being in good position since the aim is that the creditors will get as much back as possible.-

  9. Is this the cause of delay by the creditors? That they knew that YM would come up with a new offer backed up by NDRC.
    Why wouldn’t the deal with NEVS be signed otherwise?

  10. Given all the positive logic and debate on SAABs United, lets see how blinkered the Administrators can be by going for NEVS – which according to my recent reading is just two financial organisations. At least we live in “interesting times”.

  11. How much longer? How many chances?

    My experience with contract negotiations is that you get your best price by giving everyone one chance, and one chance only to put in a price. It’s quick, it’s easy and it’s cheap to administer.

    Giving everyone a second or third chance means that bidders will put in a low price, knowing that they can keep adding a few Krone each time until everyone gets to the price they could have paid. Takes ages. You get a low price…….. and the administrator gets a bigger fee.

    Cynical? Moi?

  12. I really hope that the deal isn’t final and Youngman can actually buy the entire Saab package. NEVS doesn’t need Saab, let them start up a new company. There is no need to infect the dead Saab and take it back as a mindless zombie doing something it has never done its entire life.

    If Youngman buys Saab I believe they honestly know what the fans want. I believe they will take care of 2010/2011 owners and provide warranty coverage. I believe they will build cars ASAP and attempt to turn a profit, keep the brand alive, and eventually be able to compete ONCE AGAIN with BMW, Lexus, and Audi.

    NEVS is the DEATH to Saab as we knew it. The Chinese are doing a good job with Volvo, hell the S60 I’m driving is a pretty solid car, so why can’t they do the same for Saab?

    • They can and with any luck, they will. Please let it be that NEVS isn’t a serious consideration—-just fodder to bid up the price.

    • If the publicly known bid offers are true and backed up with proof of funds then why is NEVS even being considered. Their offer is about 1/3 of YMs and does not even keep SAAB together.

      NEVS may not even have the intention of making cars.

      Let’s hope YM have the financial clout to make good on their wish to save the SAAB we love. If so the receiver’s decision seems obvious.

  13. It is obvious that Youngman is desperate to buy Saab.
    The announcement that Saab has been sold, though we don’t know to who just yet, should be a door closing on any new potential bids from anyone.

    I am curious as to Youngman’s stability as a company.
    Some months ago they were blocked from producing some kind of Lotus cars or something having to do w/Lotus. I wonder if they are banking on the Saab purchase to shore up manufacturing ability w/the loss of the Lotus tie up.

  14. Could it be? Could it possibly be? Please God, make it that the Receivers are USING NEVS to bid up the price from others and that they have no intention of turning Saab over to an electric car consortium. Please make it be that the idea is just to bleed more money out of Youngman or Mahindra, the only two players we’re aware of in the race, that can actually save the car company we love.

  15. Okay so accorfing to this NEVS won’t be allowed to buy Saab as it’s partly owned by a chinese holding company? Or am I missing something?

  16. Perhaps the SweGov should just demand that Saab be “donated” to Mahindra with a nice Thank You card. This is all becoming too much (although it’s been this way for over a year).

  17. The Lotus thing had nothing to do with Lotus the racing car builders. YM registered the name for China to be able to include it in the name of Proton passenger cars which they were assembling under licence from the Malaysian Proton group. Agreement ran out and wasn’t extended. The cars didn’t sell a lot anyway, so YM needs a viable alternative in order to remain a Chinese-based car builder at all. As we know, China is about to initiate a big cleanup in their car industry, allowing only the biggest and most viable builders to stay in business.

    Another imho interesting aspect: if the receivers reject YM’s bid even though YM can show them that they have the money to buy and continue Saab then wouldn’t the suppliers, the Swedish taxpayers and YM themselves have more than enough grounds to sue for bad faith? I mean, if NEVS buys Saab for 1,5 bn SEK when YM is prepared and able to shed out 4 bn SEK -or even more if the current bid has been revised upwards- then the Swedes will come up 3 bn SEK short minus what Riksgälden can get for Saab Parts and Saab Tools (which certainly isn’t 3 bn SEK). And the suppliers will get nothing at all where YM promises to come up with enough money to pay off all Saab suppliers in full. If I were a supplier I certainly wouldn’t take this hands down.

    My personal preference -by default- is certainly Youngman right now, given that the alternative imho means the end of Saab as we know and love it. Moreover, YM will probably provide a lot more employment for Trollhättan than NEVS ever could, in both the shorter and the longer term. Also, I don’t see why Youngman couldn’t team up with whoever, maybe even NEVS, to develop electric vehicles after the sale. China only just announced an enormous investment wave into urban electric vehicles to try and alleviate the tremendous air pollution in Chinese cities. Would Chinese money and Saab’s expertise and innovative engineering not be a great combination to achieve that? Ik give them a much better chance of success (given the unlimited money sources in Beijin) than the NEVS conglomerate, even though those also have a pretty big money bag (China Grid) behind them. But not as big as the Chinese government itself, I’d guess.

    Ivo

    • Good to hear you back from vacation? If there is one thing I miss about Europe and The Netherlands in particular is going on long vacations at least 6 times per year 🙂

      Everyone seems to be assuming that this is only about money. I’m getting more and more convinced that politics is playing an even bigger role. The Swedish government screwed the Saab thing up really badly. They are now stuck with a loan that they have to repay, for which they are holding Saab Parts ransom. They also have to deal with large unemployment in an already not too rosy area. I’m not even touching on the GM and Vladimir thing. On top of that they have to save their environmentally distorted face. I wouldn’t be surprised if, behind the screens, they are pushing for this NEVS construction.

      • 6 times a long vacation, Gerrit? I wish… No, I did get back from a 2,5 week vacation last week, that’s true. But I have refrained from posting for a while because the situation was too fluid, nothing useful could be said and there was just too much unpleasantly formulated nonsense being written here.

        Ivo

      • Agree completely. SweGov has screwed this up so badly, and their actions have done nothing but to drag out the sale, make qualified buyers (M&M) leave, ensure that suppliers/ creditors won’t be paid, de-value Saab parts as an ongoing profit generator, and contribute to long-term unemployment in THN. This is becoming obvious that this is politics at its worst. Nice work Maud– it will cost the government trillions and take decades for long term unemployment and retraining, but you can be happy to point at a pile of sludge being curated by 2 former assembly line workers and brag about “green progress.”

        I was sort of hoping/ dreaming that CJ/ Merbanco would step in, perhaps even Brightwell (a very smart Western company who have an expressed interest in alternative fuel/ hybrid/ electric cars) would reappear… but we are apparently left with either a company that did not exist a few months ago, and another company that Swade and other Saab insiders familiar with them call “idiots”– and that’s a direct quote.

        • It’s so frustrating—-because for all of Saab’s troubles over the years and especially the recent past, I still see an opportunity. I can’t speak for worldwide sales—-but for the USA, there is an enthusiastic group of hardcore Swedish car fans—-and here, it’s not as polarized as it seems to be in Sweden. People like Saabs and Volvos both—-yes, there are some who swear by one and swear off the other, but far less than it seems to be in Sweden and Europe. Here, there is a respect for the histories of both companies and the cars we’ve been offered by both companies over the decades. Even with the bankruptcy and no production in a year, many casual American buyers would gladly go back to Saab if a nice looking car in a reasonable price range could be reintroduced. Even the 9-3 with a few styling updates would sell in respectable numbers if the cars were marketed correctly—-a company really focused on grabbing as many sales as possible (unlike GM, who was far more focused on their other divisions). A conventional car maker could make a go of this—-Saab could absolutely be reborn to compete with Volvo and even some models to compete with Volkswagen and Mazda at the lower end. Front wheel drive, peppy performance, something unique/different—-and the Swedish engineering/heritage is all it would take. That, and good, solid advertising. But electric cars? No, they are late to the party for one thing, unproven for another—-the list goes on and on—-and frankly, the price point most likley won’t be right and the cars won’t be good for everyday use, vacations, etc., for most drivers. The frustrating part is that for Saab employees, hope is not lost—-but if it’s true that this is the Swedish government playing politics—-they are playing with peoples lives and that isn’t funny—-it’s twisted.

    • If the shit hits the fan (meaning, creditors and swegov get screwed for money cos of administrator’s bad call) i would realy like to hear their explanation when they stand in front of all creditors, sweating and trying to come up with some story. 😀

    • Not GM, they act like Spyker did, and I like it. They are trying to influence opinion. Victor stated “new bid that removes all the hurdles” to make sure everybody knew that if GM killed Saab they´ve done so despite that there was another opiton.

      Now YM is telling the swedish tax-payers that Saab parts doesn´t have to be a bad deal and the sub-contractors that there is an option for the future. In this way they´ll get a lot of forces working their way and the administrators will get hell if they choose otherwise. Very smart if you ask me.

  18. Is this what Till72 was referring to a few articles back? There would be somebody else (but not a former owner) making a final run for ownership? Till, please let us know!!

  19. How much evidence or proof about the money, also the long term capital can nevs give? Why so much suspicion against youngman. They did support saab back then, where were the other bidders back then? Drinking tea with the green government ? I think that the receivers have a problem with the law when they neglect this much higher bid. Never ending story…

    • You make a good point where is the evidence that NEVS can sustain any form of SAAB for years to come. NEVS is a dead end for SAAB imho.

  20. @finnfemfel: since when do YOU know how much and when youngman placed their bid??? Come on now share it with us! Einstein .

  21. I don’t believe for a second, that SweGov will allow for YM to buy Saab, and produce “regular” cars! SweGov is brainwashed with the sick “everything must be Green” way of thinking. Besides, why would the national debth office be holding a pressconference today, stating that they would be running Saab Parts, if it would be even concidered to look at YM’s new offer?
    I’m convinced that SweGov has made it perfectly clear to the admins, that SweGov wants green-tech, and green-tech only!

    Cheers!

    • Sounds like the EU – if you get a vote you don’t like, get them to do it again until you get the answer you want 😉

    • If you’re right, and I have a sinking feeling you are, it’s a real shame—-a pity—-that the Swedish government has sold out Swedish workers and citizens like this. But the same sort of thing is happening stateside too. I just want the best for Saab and I think coventional cars with conventional engines—-offered ASAP—-and hybrids/electrics later—-is the best approach.

  22. So maybe whe can put a warranty claim of our cars and compensation of value loss at the Swedish government then. If they are the ones who block a real saab2 future.

    • Yes, perhaps – along with all of the dealers and suppliers that get shafted by this. Class action suit against the Swedish government. Anyone know if a decent Swedish lawyer exists? I’m sure Mr. Lofalk would be happy to help.

    • I had this thought when GM blocked the original sale to Youngman, which would have preserved our warranties. It does seem that we should have a say in this as ones are are owed a debt, albeit a small one.

  23. We’re all still left with nothing substantial – just second-hand rumours and hearsay – we are twisting in the wind, waiting, waiting and waiting endlessly for the definitive answer to the future of Saab – which seems never to come 🙁

    My guess is we’ll all still be playing this same guessing game come the end of the year – when, oh, when, will this saga ever end?

    • “My guess is we’ll all still be playing this same guessing game come the end of the year”

      I really hope you’re wrong but I keep hearing that “The Never Ending Story” song in my head every time I turn my computer on.

  24. Ah, dezzer now we’re talking. Haven’t holiday plans yet, but now I have a direction… How big is your fridge? I bring in the beers

  25. All i can say this is more and more like everybody´s involved like SweGov, NDO, Receivers and maybe the bidders uses Saab or whats left of Saab as a playground and they are not interested to make a successive Saab reborn.

  26. This forum is completely intolerant right now.

    Here is full of DISCRIMINATION and BIAS.
    Here is full of DISCRIMINATION and BIAS
    Here is full of DISCRIMINATION and BIAS

    You guys must understand that the position of SAAB is currently bankrupted.

    You guys must understand that PANGDA and YM were the only companies which spent 4 milliones euros to SAAB and without any gains and complains even though this investement resulted a significant financial lost to PANGDA last year!

    You guys must understand that YM is the only company which acts how she love SAAB and is eager to SAVE SAAB time and time again in the last 4 year !

    YM and PANGDA are the only companies which have done practical actions for SAAB rather than those nonsense talkings during this whole process !

    You guys must understand that all your inappropriate commends here seriously hurt the people of YM and our chinese saabers who really love SAAB!

    • You appear to be trying to teach us all how to suck eggs, we understand what you say & many agree.

      Tell the Swegov your points, as they appear to be doing the bidding…..

    • easy, easy, most of us here likes Youngman, and for Saab to survive we need China regardless if its in the form of NEVS or Youngman. I think most prefer Youngman.

  27. The NDRC: can stop NEVS by claiming it’s partly chinese.

    The bankruptcy lawers: can stop YM by saying they were to late.

    The swe Gov: can NOT stop NEVS because layers already has decided to sell Saab bit by bit. They can not stop YM because they are offering 2.2 billion.

    So this drama is totally screwed up. NDRC can preassure the Chinese-swedish owner of NEVS, by threatening to take his Chinese business away from him.
    If NEVS drop out because of YM induced bully tactics the lawyers will only have one remaining bidder …… Youngman.

    • If you can beat them..join them. Seriously this Saab saga since Koenigsegg has been about various small-mid-large actors trying to fight each other. From a bushiness perspective i can understand it… i guess. From a long-term plan no, especially if you are lacking money and/or knowledge,infra, various demo graphical presence etc.

      I like the hybrid version theory indeed, but as many other already pointed out, pure electric Saab, i don’t think so.

      But yeah seems a bit screwed up all this, why do Youngman feel the need to go out in public telling they have now put yet another bid? Need to put some heat and/or a method to save your own face ? Hard to understand what is going on indeed.

  28. It is not the administrators job to secure that YM has enough funds to keep Saab alive but if they invest 4 billion SEK I’m sure they have enough to keep running otherwise the investment would be a big waste of money.

    NEVS has not enough money to buy Parts…

    Go Youngman, you deserve to buy Saab.

  29. I dare not have any thoughts about this right now. I will wait a bit before I dare to think about this.
    Good night, everybody. 🙂

  30. Was there ever a serious bid from mahindra ? They remain in absolute silence. Can’t we just call them and ask?

    • I can find nothing on their website re any contact with SAAB administrators, nothing about any bid. The only mention of SAAB is in a 2009 Press Release concerning SAAB Defence.(

    • Yeah, indeed. What happened to them? Ive been thinking of them for couple of days now. Last thing i read about them was they were “laying low”.
      Is there any confirmed info about them pulling out of process or are they still in it?
      I mean, “laying low” doesnt say a thing. Like “We are sitting at the table, but dont look at us and dont ask us anything.” Would realy like to know their position in the bidding process.

    • After putting in over 20 MILLION EUROS into Saab Automobiles AB, I would be very careful how much more I was prepared to ‘gamble’.

      And that does not include the 30-40 million put in by Pangda……
      All Lost.

      Now that’s what I call a Joke.!!.

      • Only a fool throws money down a hole and expects a return on it. Maybe if Youngman had spent the last 12 months putting together a convincing, well-funded and transparent bid to make for Saab after its inevitable bankruptcy (instead of dragging out the end game with insufficient cash infusions to the point of damaging the company they wanted to acquire) they would enjoy everyone’s confidence now instead of suffering a huge amount of skepticism.

        The again, maybe not. I for one put faith in the statements of those “in the know” who worked with Saab in the end during the Youngman insurgency who have declared them amateurish and a disaster for Saab.

        • I was on every market call Saab had in the end. You may say Youngman has indeed some kind of internal problems,lack of know-how, strange and vauge reasoning or whatever… i dont know but Saab had some naive reaonsing as well.If you have been an automaker for well over 60 years you pretty much know the conditions and boundries.

          Youngman/Pang Da both started out as owners and got reduced to being a lender or bank, pretty big difference i would say.

          We can bash them for a lot of thing, and again they might actually lack a lot of skills in various areas i have no idea at all.They might like to talk a bit too much… but that very specific transaction was not so easy IMHO especially not considering the conditions.

        • The huge of skepticism itself comes from the some of longtime distorted ,unfair,jealous,hate reports about China in the western country´s media and Propaganda even today.

          I am a Chinese and have been in Sweden and Europe for many years ,I know many facts and differences deeply between Europe and China.

          Your commend here just clearly indicates and represents one of many who are ignorant and unknowing about TODAY ´S China
          If you haven’t been in China ,haven’t know its method /culture of business well, please don’t act as you are a pro, actually it more likes a joke indeed.

          • Well, I for one am rooting for YM. I’m glad they are making their bids public too. I have a feeling that if they were silent, Swegov and the administrators would just ignore them and give Saab to whoever fits their agenda. The only way YM can combat this is to keep their bids in the public eye so the administrators and Swegov can’t quietly push them aside. They should be held accountable if they don’t seriously consider YM’s bid.

          • cs, your frustration is quite understandable.

            But keep in mind that a number of people here welcomed YM when the news of the deal surfaced over a year ago.

            Promises were made that got our hopes up and visions were shared that made many of us eager to see what a more resourceful Saab could accomplish. We were discussing a 9-3 replacement, a 9-4x replacement, a 9-1 and possibly a 9-6 (or whatever a bigger 9-5 would be called).

            As such, it should come as no surprise that many are equally a tad bitter when that future failed to materialize. Currently, YM failed to deal with Spyker, they failed to deal with GM and now it looks like the receivers are unable to cooperate as well. This paints YM in a very bad light.

            That is not necessarily a irreversible bad thing. If YM win the bid, completes the Phoenix platform and produces a new 9-3 that inspires the market, then I am confident the failures of the past will be water under the bridge. But here and now it is a different story. At this point they really must “show us the money” (‘Jerry Maguire’ style).

            • Rune,

              Please read the 2nd paragraph of Lundin’s comments above. That is about the truth.

              YM/Pangda may NOT have completed the original transaction, but just look at how it kept changing. Mainly due to GM not being cooperative.

              They went from ownership to shareholder to part ownership of a VM vehicle Co’ in a few years, to part ownership in a non complete Platform controlled by another of VM’s asset holding Co’s, to get around GM’s stance, etc, etc.

              Personally, I think [business wise], I would have walked away too!!.

          • I agree that in different parts of the world, business is conducted much, much differently. Sometimes, the cultural differences can cause enough friction to dismantle a deal. But in this case—-it is the obligation of these Receivers, if not by law than at least by common sense—-to get a few things right: 1) Recover as much money as possible to make the creditors as whole as possible.
            2) Try to broker a deal that is in the best interest of the town the former Saab’s primary business and factory operated in, as well as the country Saab is from—-accomplished by trying to visualize a future where this factory will be up and running, employing as many people as possible, including some former employees.
            3) Try to make a decision that is gratifying and profitable in the short term and gives the best chances for long term stability.
            When all of this is taken into consideration—-the bid amount as well as the sources of funding for that amount must be considered, along with the business plan. I don’t know what Mahindra might have included in their proposal—-and since in this case, no news is probably bad news, let’s focus on NEVS and Youngman: The way this has been reported and by cobbling together the opnions and comments on this board, I see no possible logical conclusion to awarding Saab to NEVS—-none whatsoever. I see some compelling arguments for and against Youngman—-but they are so far above NEVS on the things that matter—-it’s hard to imagine that NEVS will win out, unless something very dubious is at work behind the scenes. And it’s the Receivers JOB to overcome cultural differences—-and to recognize how business and negotiations are conducted differently around the world—-and to look past frustration they might have with how Youngman has approached this—-and do what is right—-which in my view, now at least—-is to give this chance to Youngman, not NEVS.

          • ”The money is buried under the 3rd rock on he left, passed big Mountain on the right, next to the palm tree on the little island, next to the big island, adjacent to the Cayman islands.

            Oh, and you need 15 signatures to get pass the people with the combination to unlock the gates that say ‘enter here, all those who believe in a fabled tale’

  31. I think this is the Swedish version of Charles Dickens “Bleak House”. The lawyers get everything and the process never ends.

    Just a thought.

    • I agree—-and frankly, it’s hard to imagine a rationale for taking a significantly lower offer. And if it’s a matter of trusting the sources of funding, I’d love to know what kind of scrutiny NEVS is under. I have been an outspoken supporter of Mahindra since before it was announced that they even had interest. I still think they would be a wonderful owner. But I have to say—poetic justice might just be Youngman finally winning this.

    • Hahaha. Man oh man. USD 700 million for a bankruptcy estate. That’s 9.5 times what Spyker paid for a basically solvent company. Anyone who doesn’t see that this is insane, is either hopelessly naive or willingly blind.

      • That “insanity” is on Youngman. You react like it is your money they wanna buy Saab’s assets with. Of course Youngman has to come with money before they even touch a pen to sign the contract.

        • Oh, that’s not really it. My reaction mostly follows from a certain bemusement with the lengths Youngman is seemingly willing to go to get their hands on Saab’s bankruptcy estate. I know that they need this deal more than anyone else, and it clearly shows. Their antics are starting to become stranger than fiction at this point.

          • Perhaps they do need this deal more than anyone else—and as long as they can show some degree of backing that will make their offer a reality, those Receivers better not blow this.

      • As Has been said on SU before, During VM ownership of Saab, alot of value was added to the Co.
        Be it, being kept alive & showing what it had in mind for the future.

        Also, 9.5 times what Spyker paid is not exactly correct. Yes they did not put down alot in cash, but GM held a 350? million preferential shares in the Co, which was part of the price.

        • I beg to disagree, Terry.

          Spyker bought a company with a ready to go workforce, licenses in place to manufacture three GM-based vehicle lines, quite a bit of cash in the company following the BAIC deal, public goodwill, a brand that was far less damaged than it is now, a desler network almost fully intact, a supply chain waiting to start producing again etc. And indeed, GM coughed up hundreds of millions in seller financing.

          Granted, the Spyker era may have led to some added value in terms of Phoenix, but thats about it. A lot of value was destroyed as well, definitely in terms of market value. Any financial analyst will dispute the notion that Spyker added value to Saab: just look at Spyker’s share price development. 

          And look at what Youngman would be buying, compared with Spyker: a company with no cash whatsoever (but with 12 bln SEK in debts just cleared), no licenses for previous model lines and therefore no product to generate cash flow, hardly any workforce left (most will have to be rehired or indeed found anew), a seriously dressed down dealer network and supply chain (ask Valeo or Bosch how keen they are these days doing business with Saab), a brand that is more damaged than ever before. That’s hardly value-adding if you draw up the final account. You can’t seriously argue that Saab is worth more now than it was when Spyker bought it.

          Finally, its somewhat odd that Youngman, which weeks before the bankruptcy wanted to pay a mere 10 mln or so for the whole joint, is now offering to pay 70 times as much. But as said, this deal is pure necessity for them.

          • Much of which you say is true.

            BUT
            As far as I know the funds from the BAIC deal went to GM not to Spyker/Saab.

            GM financing dealer purchases is the way it works for GM dealerships worldwide, they make a fair bit with GMAC financing.

            Spyker paid $450 million as pointed out by davidgmills [above] & I cannot see how your calculation of 700m $ = 9.5 times what Spyker paid.

            Whilst I accept YM bid is for 500+ euros. This will include the Parts business [which is overvalued against the EIB debt of 2.2 billion krona].
            I do accept this appears to be overvaluing the estate, but If they want it, so be it.
            The value placed on it by NEVs seems very, very Low.

            Saab Automobiles AB was probably worth alot more on paper than in real life, hence the attempt to get it cheap, but with all the debts the price would have been much higher than 100m & equally uncertain, given VM ability to do many ‘creative picture book visions’.

            I am not trying to push up YM ambitions, but do feel an even playing field should at least be visual.

            • I looked up the exact numbers for you:

              – The funds paid by BAIC for the old 9-3 and 9-5, USD 200 million according to several press reports, went to Saab and not to GM.

              – Spyker paid USD 74 million in cash. That’s it. GM received USD 326 million in preference shares, which in terms of balance sheet was booked as debt for Spyker under Dutch accounting rules. That does not mean however that Spyker paid that USD 400 million to GM: the cash part of the deal was USD 74 million. Times 9.5 that is 700 million, according to my calculator. So there is the calculation 😉 (Another point in favor of Spyker here is that they had access to the EUR 400 mln EIB loan, albeit in tranches)

              – I do agree that Youngman would have had to take on all the debts of Saab. So the overall cost would indeed have been much higher. I stand corrected 🙂

              Nevertheless: the bottom line is that under the current bid Youngman would pay much more than Spyker for much less. Which I find fascinating.

              • Maybe not all that strange if you think about it. Youngman is in danger of being annihilated as a passenger car producer by the Chinese government since their market share of the national passenger car market isn’t enough to pass muster for the upcoming cleanup of the Chinese car industry. If they fail that yardstick, they will revert to their previous status of a provincial touring car builder. Not something in harmony with the stated ambitions of the YM group and its management. And they also will have to sell or abandon their recently constructed and equipped pretty giant car assembly plants. Huge capital destruction and probably soemthing that may well harm their future as a company.

                Acquiring Saab is probably their last and only chance to remain on the map of China as a serious car builder. Moreover, by YM acquiring Saab China will gain control of a (still) globally significant brand with quite promising future tech prospects (e-AAM, Phoenix, various ‘clean diesels’, biofuel-engines, EV-technology, several almost ready-to-build models etc.). Seen in that light, it -to me, at least- seems understandable why the Chinese authorities/NDRC apparently support YM’s bid now, why YM is willing to ludicrously overpay for what is left of Saab and why Chinese state banks seem to be prepared to finance that bid.

                Ivo

    • I doubt it. The Receivers don’t work weekends, do they? I’m sure they’ll want to discuss Youngman’s new bid over steak and lobster, with a nice bottle of wine. Check please—-put it on old Swede’s tab.

  32. By way of this message and by way of this website, I am hereby asking Rachel Pang to accompany me on a dinner date when she visits Washington, DC, USA. It is to be the restaurant of Ms. Pang’s choice, though I suggest Clydes in Tysons Corner, Virginia. We can also shop at Tysons Corner Center, a popular regional mall and take a nice drive in my Saab around the Great Falls area. Further, I am assuming the answer to my invitation is yes. If Ms. Pang cannot fit me into her schedule and/or does not choose to accept my offer, I would appreciate her regrets as an answer to this post. Thus, if I don’t see a “no” response in the next few days, I will assume the answer is yes and I look forward to getting to know her!

    • Angelo, I suggest you get some testosterone shots. I don’t think you are being sufficiently aggressive to get this relationship off the ground.

    • Well done Angelo. You’ve sealed the deal – something the administrators can’t claim.

      Rachel will be impressed with your Saab, but you may want to add a Lotus touch. A Lotus ball cap may be a bit downmarket for Clydes. Perhaps Lotus cufflinks?

    • All of you will be singing a different tune when you see Rachel and I on the society pages of the Washington Post—–or ummm….the society pages of the Wall Street Journal or Financial Times.

  33. $700M bid…. it would be an absurdity if NEVS somehow got the deal instead! Regardless of wich company can manage what, 5 billion crowns is alot of mullah! And the 2.2 billion for the debt office is a face saving gift from above (or rather china in this case) that surely, seriously, can not be overlooked?
    Paying off the suppliers aswell, and a restart i.e. serious employment (not just engineers researching god knows what)
    Surely no amount of tree hugging day dreaming can stand up to 3.5 billion cold hard crowns extra over the NEVS bid? Surely public opinion also matters in Sweden with it’s elected goverment?

    As stated before here, i think it’s a smart move from youngman to release this publicly ( either they learned from VM or perhaps getting some pointers ?). Heck, it’s on reuters, how much more public can you go…
    Let the world know there IS a chance to pay back suppliers, not loose a ridiculous amount of taxpayers money on saab parts and get Trollahattans workers back into jobs!!

    All this “behind closed doors” haggling seems to have only made the situation more dire, good to see Youngman make this move imho!

    • Your point re “elected Government” – surely they want to drop SAAB Parts as soon as poss, as at the moment it owes the taxpayer a pile of money – which a lot of electors don`t like.

    • Absolutely, bravo for that post. Yes—transparency is sometimes good, particularly when the public trust is involved. I don’t understand why some have said that keeping it behind closed doors/quiet is better. In this process, that has never made sense to me. If it’s being handled fairly and with the public interest in mind, let it be open. The only way these Receivers will ever be accountable is if the populace knows what is happening—-which is why not having regular news conferences is astounding to me—-the fact that THEY could even make that decision is ridiculous—-detailed interviews/news conferences should be mandatory and the bidders making public statements is just fine with me.

  34. If tenacity means anything, Youngman deserves a chance. I complement it on it’s perseverance. But then again I’m not totally against NEVS as I believe that combined with either Youngman or Mahindra, it would be a great outcome. However NEVS as a sole owner of Saab makes me very nervous as I can’t see how it can make enough cars in the short to medium term to make any sort of income, let alone enough to develop future models. Then as some have said, maybe it doesn’t really want to make cars? That being the case, I feel that Saab AB and Scania AB should stipulate that the use of the Saab brand name requires volume production of cars in Sweden occurring in a reasonable time-frame. That’s something I think NEVS (by itself) probably can’t achieve or doesn’t even intend to?

    • Everyone else is going with wild conjecture, so why not – here’s some more:

      The administrators are impressed with Youngman’s offer. However, Youngman has a track record of saying they will come up with x millions, and then, shall we say, not delivering. Happened several times last year re Saab and its challenges. Based on that, it may be a repetitive pattern with Youngman (administrators likely know more about Youngman’s other past deals than we do). Which would would make an administrator wonder if they will ever actually come up with said funds.

      Other than that, you’re spot on. And Rachel is kinda cute.

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