Pride and Prejudice

It seems to never end. For more than a year all we can do is wait and see. Wait and see what happens to Saab, see if a solution comes up on the horizon to revive Saab and, at best, bring it back to former glory. Understandable, as us Saab fans are a a species that is pretty proud of its cars and the company behind it so a rivived Saab would give us back part of our pride.

We had hoped with the announcement of the sale things would get more clear and new life would flow into the facilities in Trollhättan. Actually it already begun, but quite slowly. Too slow for some of us, but that is quite natural. We are very eager to see cars roll of the line again but after this year of standstill it is no surprise that this takes time.

Looking at the new owner of Saab, I can understand that many of you do not feel too comfortable. Hearing that NEVS will just make electric vehicles was not what we had expected, not what we had hoped for. But rest assured, what we see right now is just the tip of the iceberg, there is much ore about this plan. I wrote about it before and the plot thickens that the Indian involvement is a major one. Still, we will most likely not see any announcement from them until the ink has dried. That’s just the way they work.

Kai Johan Jiang had to face quite a storm blowing in his direction. The Swedish press happily pulled out so called experts with no actual insight in the process itself to talk down NEVS. Ex CLEPA CEO Lars Holmquist was just one of them. What I really hate about those articles is that it’s all about talking things completely down. Personally I prefer to say that there is something missing. While the focus on EVs defines the future the missing link is the way to earn some money until then. The fact that NEVS are looking for a partner in this field just says it all. The know. And they know what they are doing.

The fact that Kai Johan Jiang moves to Trollhättan may not mean that much, but that he left his as CEO of National Bio Energy is a step that shows he is serious in what he is doing. NEVS is his main project right now. And this, after all, is a very positive thing.

There are a lot of things moving behind the scenes right now and it’s not very satisfying to do those keep calm and carry on posts, but for now there is not more I can do. Still, I do it for a reason as now and then I got a glimpse of what Saab can become. Just give it some time, I am sure there will be more things to surface in the close future and the picture of NEVS will be more accurate. And we will be much more comfortable with it then.

85 thoughts on “Pride and Prejudice”

  1. we can only do one thing for now:
    hope you´re right and things will become better for us.
    until we reached this point, for me there´s no saab anymore – for now, they have only bought a company, not really saab.

  2. Well said Til, the Wife and I are really just wanting to see more of what Saab was and always wanted to be, we love how they drive and how unique they truly look. NEVS needs to show us a car that is distinctly Saab yet modern in all forms. The ongoing proceedings have really shown that Scandanavian folks can really keep a secret. I mean look at the news these days with government officials spilling the beans on multiple topics, but no they will not leak any information on a very popular car company, hmmm. I honestly did not like the look of the Phoenix concept although I respect for what it stands for and hope to drive a MY2016-2018 9-3 off the lot some day.

    I’d also love to see an interview of some of the returning employees in the next few months and see how they are fairing. That should give us an idea of what is to come.

    Alas though we were eventually wanting to buy a 9-4x Aero and 9-5 SC, that of course will be never ;(

  3. NEVS bought the assets of what was once an amazing car company. Except the name. Why? Because that’s not what they wanted. Sad but true.

  4. Over the last year a lot of people “have heard” stuff about Saab Automobile. They “know what is going on behind the scenes” and have heard this or that from “trusted sources”. Back in October or November SU wrote about “the deal” that they had inside information about and that would save the company. And so on… And as soon anybody (politicians, industry insiders, etc.) say something about Saab Automobile that SU don’t like (all facts set aside), then that person is immediately labeled as unprofessional, as acting disputable, etc.

    A lot have indeed changed since Swade run this blog. The days are gone when I checked SU every 2 hours and really got excited when Swade had a post about a Saab related rumor or some inside information, because I knew that there would be some substance behind it.

    Now it all seems to come done to either wishful thinking, desperation, or aggression aginst people in the media who have a different opinion.

    I know that the “new” SU crew have all the rights to make their blog into what they want, but that aside there are probably no one denying that SU has been (and maybe still are) a major force in the whole Saab community. But with that “power” also comes responsibilities *if* you want to continue to be the trusted news service for all things Saab related.

    NEVS may be Saab related, but all they have done is to buy (maybe – is the deal actually done?) some technologies and a factory that belonged to Saab Automobile. And the new owners have stated all sorts of things in media, but nothing has been confirmed with any official statements. It may be that SU knows stuff. Fine. But what you know (even if it’s insider stuff) is worth nothing until there is a deal and an official statement. Unfortunately, right now I feel that SU has the same level of speculative writing as news outlets like di.se. And I don’t think that is to anyones (not even NEVS’) favor.

    Have a nice summer!

    • Swade operated SU under completely different conditions ie when there was a living organism called Saab. But with that said i completly agree with everything you say. For obvious reasons SU isn’t as a happy place to visit as it used to be and that is not the fault of the SU staff that obviously try their hardest to keep this place and hope afloat. But as you i don’t think posts based on wishful thinking about stuff that that are hardly even rumors benefits either the SU-site, the comunity or any one else that loves their Saabs. The passion the SU staff has to keep this place alive is admirable but doing so by writing stories without backup does no good for anyone. I doesn’t visit here 5-10 times a day anymore for obvious reasons that has nothing to do with the site it self. But i do check it out and what i find is mostly rumors built on assumptions. You guys should think about what the Swade would have written or not if he still run this site. A realistic and boring Saabs United is to me much better then a false hope saabs united, either we succeed or fail in the future.

      • montahue, in fairness to Tim and Till who now own SU, I don’t think Swade would have kept the site running. Swade had said many times in the past that he was burning out doing his day job and this site and I’m sure I remember hearing him say he would not be doing a SU site at the time that we’ve come to now. That being said, I think there is still a community that needs to have a place to connect and SU is one of the only places for people from around the world can do that. As far as rumors and those kinds of things, you have to remember that some of the SU writers through their contacts have info they can’t share completely and may only give hints or as you call rumors because comments on SU take people in the wrong direction and the hints may open peoples eyes to what is happening. Right or wrong, that is my opinion on it and I have been trying recently to talk about other things that have nothing to do with NEVS or what may happen.

        • Yes i know Swade for understandable reasons was burnt out with SU, thats why he sold/passed it to Tim and Co. The new SU crew has done so much for us all that we are always in debt. I just react to the recent development that makes me feel like they are making things up just for the sake of “good spirit”. If good spirit is not based in reality at all it will not make things better for anyone in the long run. Im not saying SU sucks because Swade is not running it anymore. I’m just saying if he still was running it im sure he would prefeer letting it become boring rather than posting things based on imagination.

  5. “But rest assured, what we see right now is just the tip of the iceberg, there is much ore about this plan. I wrote about it before and the plot thickens that the Indian involvement is a major one.”

    My question is why haven’t NEVS communicated this, if they’re building partnerships in order to have something to sell by the numbers before EV’s are viable alternatives as the only car of the household?
    We read all the time how different manufacturers are hooking up with each other -BMW and Toyota last week- but I’ve yet to hear from anyone from NEVS to say they’d even consider hybrids or have the slightest interest in current Saab owners. It’s all about EV’s.
    Wouldn’t you rather have a million people eagerly waiting for or at least interested in your product than non?
    Starting with a new brand means you have zero existing customers and just about the same amount of expectation and excitement amongst the public. Just like the BYD (EV) cars. A known fact is that without recognition or a company image it is almost impossible to sell anything unless it’s half the price or something the world has never seen before i.e. Tesla or Fisker that are already out there -and struggling financially which is part of the hi-end game.

    • RS.
      I don’t think that NEVS is allowed to tell anything about a partnership till the signatures are done.
      SWAN was always very public with their plans, but they kept quite silent about their cooperation plans.

      • I don’t mean they should announce anything before signing just talk about intentions what they are going to do with the company. No mentioning of hybrids by the leadership or PR. In fact just the opposite. I’m sure the world is filled with petrol or diesel powertrains that could be modified to build at least hybrids if they can’t get/want the GM ones. The former Saab engineers haven’t forgotten what is required to make a good biopower or twin scroll turbo diesel engine.
        If the Saab spirit would be revoked it could be done just the way tuned the TTiD when everyone kept saying, no way. NEVS shouldn’t underestimate enthusiasm and passion. That is what moves mountains.

        • Lets put together some facts:
          Kai Johan Jiang is obviously going “all in” on NEVS.
          He has made a fortune on his previous projects, so it’s very likely that he know what smells money.

          About the name:
          The other SAAB is very familiar with M&M.
          There are rumors about M&M getting involved.
          The CEO has made it clear that he wants to see stable jobs in Trollhättan to allow use of the Saab name.

          My guess is that there is a second half of this deal, and that’s why the Saab name issue isn’t resolved yet.

          Kai being what he is, I have to assume that if there is a good payoff in letting M&M in, he will go for it. About lack of information, well, if spreading plans around won’t help NEVS, there is a good case for not doing it.

        • Personally, I’ve had enough talk about intentions, which have later turned out to be just vapor or impossible to reach. Sure, we will get less news and less things to rave about, but I prefer signed and sealed.

          • I agree about hating rumors but one could also argue that NEVS shouldn’t talk about Saabs when they don’t even have the right to the name -yet.
            The longer they keep us in the dark the less enthusiastic about whatever they’re going to do in the future we become. There would be absolutely no harm in getting people on board or come out and say point blank that ‘we’re only going to build EV’s’ if that’s the case so the guessing can finally come to an end. It’s been years now and people are flocking to other car brands ever day because of this.

            @Jond spot on. NEVS PR needs to get their act together. After all it’s about the future customers.

            • Millions are out of power in Washington DC area because of storms. No power expected for a few days. How would you charge your EV,?

              • During a power cutoff, you charge your EV the same way you “recharge” your petrol car during petrol shortages. -With a little bit of luck, or not at all. 🙂

                • Power failures happen all the time. I have never seen a petrol shortage. These petrol shortages may happen in Denmark. Luck is going to give you electricity during a failure. Nice try though. If there’s no power the ev can’t go. Period.

                  • Although I’m no proponent of electric cars, to be fair I have lived through two gas crises here in the U.S. where fuel was in short supply. Older folks lived through gas rationing during the war. Being able to run on batteries would certainly have been a plus in those situations.

                    The mideast is getting ready to explode(yet again) so it is certainly possible that fuel supplies could become tight.

                    Not to mention that if there’s no power, gas pumps won’t work either.

                    Of course if you have a diesel car you can modify it to run on vegetable oil. (I have a friend who did that with an old Volvo wagon.) 🙂

                  • Funny that you mention that, as I was just talking to a friend who can’t get any gas at the gas stations nearby him in Northern VA. Irony: he has a natural gas generator at his house and has power for everything he needs even though the grid is out for the next week. Think about that one for a bit.

              • Germany will close its nuclear plants 2022,

                http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13592208

                Even Japan seem not to shoure what they shall with there plant after the accident.

                http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/01/us-japan-nuclear-protest-idUSBRE8500OE20120601

                So should we use coal and oil to get electricy to charge our cars … Sounds like we “bite ourselves in the tail.

                http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/01/us-japan-nuclear-protest-idUSBRE8500OE20120601

                Has anyone calculated the increase in electricity demand if all vehicles today were electric cars?

                What is air pollution like if all the electricity for the most part has to be produced by oil and coal?

                • I did. 40% increase. But others have calculated 30%.

                  Germany’s intention is not to revert to coal and oil, but to switch over to renewable energies. I must say though that the political agenda in this respect is a mess. The government have now limited the subsidized photovoltaic capacity to a size that will deliver only a few percent of the overall consumption. Apparently hoping that at the time when the subsidies stop (for newly built PV plants), newly errected plants will be able to make a profit on the free market. The prices for PV panels are indeed coming down quickly. But if that will turn out the right strategy, or will just kill the whole market, I can’t tell.

              • But can they get fuel? Aren’t the fuel pumps at the petrol stations run by electrical power as well?

                Provided that batteries will eventually have sufficient capacity to bridge several days of use without recharging, will there be a difference?

                And regarding “power failures happen all the time”, that concerns mostly the USA with a rather weak infrastructure. In 25 years living in Munich, we had exactly one power break, and that one was announced. If the US want to get into EV mobility, they will of course have to modernize their power grid.

              • Vagabond, I meant that if they’re going to build EV’s only I finally get closure to all this and move on. I’m not going to get a 9-5 wagon developed in the mid 90’s with 200k km on it ones we decide to pull the trigger on a bigger car than what the current 9-3 is.
                A very good and roomy hybrid Phoenix 9-3 with the real SAAB badge launched before 2015 most likely would keep me loyal for a long time.
                Lets see if NEVS want that or not…

  6. If NEVS are trying to find a way to bring back the old Saab and make us all happy, then it would be great! But we still have not heard anything from NEVS itself of course! If they are looking for some sort of “partner” to work with, such as Mahindra maybe, well I would have thought that this should have been in place BEFORE they bid on the Saab estate, not after! Kai Johan Jiang is going to continue to take flack because NEVS is simply not saying anything, Saab fans are not mind readers, we need information and so do any potential future customers. NEVS do not seem interested in the public or in Saab fans! We don’t know what they will make, we don’t know when they will make it, we don’t even know if it will be called Saab, as they have not bought the name! The situation is just made worse by the silence of NEVS, not better!

    • Haven’t you followed the press conference? First car a 9-3 (ePower I presume) end of 2013, then a new Phoenix based 9-3 later on. They have imho expressed clear interest in using the Saab brand, since initially, their website was full of Saab references. It is not NEVS’s fault if Saab AB blocks the usage, or is it?

      • Maybe they’re blocking the name until it’s confirmed that the new 9-3 will have an engine? Fingers crossed.

      • But herein Thylmuc lies the problem! They have not said if it will be a “Saab” 93 (epower). They have not said if they will build any cars with a normal engine and they have not defined whether these “e”cars will be of use to most of us who do not want a mere city car with limited range or what the cost will be. As for the Saab name, well we still don’t know if they will be able to use the name at all, it is not up to them as we know. I am just shocked that the name issue was not sorted out before they went into it, unless they feel that if push comes to shove, they can do without it.

  7. Oh, a clever litterary reference! I like that. But who is mr Darcy then? Kai Johan? Can we expect him to evolve from a proud and condescending character into a more loveable person?

  8. You’re probably quite right about the tip of the iceberg. I’m sure NEVS plans are much bigger than what we’ve seen so far. Saab was likely just a convenient step along the way to wherever NEVS plans take it. I’m also guessing it’s plans really doesn’t involve ‘NEVS’ actually building many cars itself? I’m sure there’ll be many changes along the way and we can only hope that it’ll eventually look a whole lot better for the Saab enthusiast than it currently looks, because it looks far from promising at the moment.

  9. All

    Given the condition of Saab, this will certainly take time. Rebuilding a company essentially from scratch is an enormous and challenging task. It is folloy to assume a party would step in and turn on in short time. Saab (or whatever they call her) is very fortunate to have had someone step in at all. The opportunity to keep our old Saab was 3 years ago, and it was very well messed up.

    She has a long road back, we may not 100% like what she may become, but I am enthused to be able to see something going on.

    Lets be supportive and see what road, if any, she finds.

  10. You certainly can say something about your intentions before the ink is dry on the agreement. For example, they could say that they are ‘currently investigating the possibility of seeking strategic partners to help develop a balanced and exciting portfolio of products in the near term in addition to their EV aimed at the Chinese market’. That sort of thing would keep everyone on side.

    All we have heard so far is about the small EV for the Chinese market, probably not called a SAAB. How dull and illogical is that.

    Inscrutability may be all well and good for state-run China, but it is unsuitable for Western markets. The first hiree should be a PR person to make the new company’s case. Otherwise everyone will assume, quite correctly, that they haven’t got a case to make.

    • Yes jond they do need a PR guy, but maybe they don’t want to say what they are up to, because maybe they don’t care what anyone thinks because maybe they don’t need the Saab fans, or the general westerm car buying public. Why would they have such a view on things? Well I have no idea, although there has been much speculation on SU about it as we both know, and much of it has been negative as one would expect.

      • Or just maybe they do care and want to have factual contracts signed before they explain what they are up to rather then risk looking like idiots if the plans had to change. Maybe they have learned from the likes of Youngman that it doesn’t pay to be the loudest at the table. When did we become such conspiracy type people? This is NEVS/SAAB, not some Decoded TV show.

        • +1
          Jason: I think you would agree, our job here is not to submit to the house of “no” regarding NEVS. Here is something else to consider. Why would NEVS want to continue the Saab car line, unless they were onto something, something big, which at this time, we can not see. Think about it. Does NEVS have a solution to the battery problem? Is that the reason why they were willing to take on Saab and the old, heavy 9-3 platform when others were saying it’s too old, too heavy? Perhaps they have a battery that makes weight less important that before? If so, should not we wait before passing judgement? Otherwise we end up looking like fools when NEVS produces “the car” everyone seeking? Yes, negivativy is all around, but what if NEVS has a world changer up it’s sleeve? We must consider that they might.

  11. I hope and believe till32 is in the right track. There are much more news ahead and I believe from now on it just can be better. We have to bide our time and ask every pessimists on our blog to chear up. I too want SAAB to make traditional cars beside new technology. But we must we must be realistic and get use to the fact that we cant go on using petrol and diesel in the long run. I strongly believe EV vehicles is the main solution in the future. NEVS is on the right track.

    The reason why we dont hear any news about the future SAAB is to a certain amount trade secrets.
    We can only guess from the information that we know. 1. One issue is the dicussion of the brand name. What are the reasons why SAAB AB can let the name go? 2. Why did NEVS won the bidding process when Youngman was said to pay more. 3. Why is the price NEVS have to pay still a secret and why will it be announced later.
    Please everyone, be optimistic lets all believe that the receivers made the right choice!

    • And now maybe new, dark clouds are arising over the horizon. According to the Monday July 2th edition of newspaper ttela.se Youngman now claims to be the owner of the Phoenix platform. I guess we have heard some this before, but nevertheless the saga continuous.

      • I’m speculating here. Is this the background to the Mahindra rumor and why we don’t here anything that makes sense from NEVS?

        I.e. the idea is that NEVS does China electrics and Mahindra develops SAAB cars as we normally know them. Phoenix would be the key to all this. Deal stalls as Youngman claim that Phoenix belongs to them.

        Reading the article in ttela it seems there is more to the story. Also yesterday’s timely article in di (Youngman recruits former SAAB engineers to complete the Phoenix) makes more sense.

  12. P.T. Barnum was quoted as saying “there is no such thing as bad publicity”. NEVS must have got the translation mixed up and thought it was ” there is nothing as bad as publicity.” To not tell the marketplace, the world nowadays. that you exist and what is coming dooms a company to extinction.

    • A good rumor can take 60 years to built up …..a bad one you can get in one second ……….
      (*comment to Kai Johan Jiang)
      ==
      NEVS just bought the assets from former SAAB Automobile AB…they arn’t SAAB Automobile AB
      The silent can kill more than the word….time to know. I don’t want to go waiting for years to conferm my suspicions about NEVS.

      Today It’s just “the blind leads the blind”

  13. What KJY can do to get some goodwill from the Saab community;
    1. Rehire some one that we know to demonstrate continuity:
    (maybe mr Castriota)
    2. Buy a used Saab;
    (would recommend a classic 2 door 900 converted to biofuel.
    3. Start up some Saab website, showing highend photos of water sprouting out of the trollhattan dam & the ursaab. With the text – ‘we believe in power and sustainability’
    4. Get a Saab production jacket, KJJ on.
    5. Release a teaser image / a glimze of the car in the making at NEVS.
    6. Only give interviews to the local media,
    ( ttela) and ignore the national media (di,dn)
    7. Donate money or invest in the Saab Museum.
    8. Open the velodrome test track to the enthusiast Saab owner.
    9. Compete in som veteran car race with a 2 stroke Saab.
    10. …..
    4.

    • Why would he be interested in anything that we want? I don’t think any of us buy new cars. And some of us don’t even buy old cars made by “GM Saab”.

      We are past it and gone. We will only be interested in his company if it makes cars that are nice to drive, but that no new car buyer really cares about. Then the used car price will drop and we can afford them. Then we will form an owners group and demand more cheap used cars. But by then his company will be bankrupt.

      • Well in another three years or so I will want a new car and I should like it to be a new Saab! I just hope and pray that there wil be new saabs to buy! At the momemt it does not look good.

  14. just visited trollhattan and saab museum. There were still quite many cars at delivery area inside factory area. Including 9-4xs and 9-5 combis. Also one ng9-5 painted at indepence cabriolet color. One combi was closer to road and had register plates. There were quite a much traffic at main gate so something is happening. Last 9-3 was in museum without list of donators. There were very nice saab veteran in museum also, maybe with a sad feelings. It is still unbelievable that those brialliant cars are not manufactured anymore…

  15. It is encouraging that Mahindra is involved and wants to build petrol or hybrid SAAB vehicles. SAAB has a certain reputation to live up to – that is, driver-centered, logical ergonomics, the highest safety standards, and an excellent balance between respectable (although not world class) performance and excellent economy and reliability – and of course smallish displacement with good power through turbocharging, so economy for most driving is excellent, without sacrificing excellent power on demand for merging and passing (and climbing hills).

    I’m sure Mahindra can deliver economy. However, can they deliver performance and reliability? That is something I’m not so sure of. I’d like to give them the benefit of the doubt, but based on what I’ve heard about Indian vehicles (from Indian friends who immigrated here) and that many Indians lust after Mercedes for their reliability, consider me a skeptic. So, I find this encouraging, but after so many let-downs I am not getting my hopes up.

    All the same, in the meantime what can we do but wait and see what happens? If they do produce anything remotely similar to the 9-3 Aero (2.8T performance or better, with 2.0T reliability) I hope they bring it to market before I buy my next car. I’m considering either BMW, SAAB (if they’re on the market as a SAAB in principle and name), or just putting one of my Corvettes in the shop for a full restomod (needs all new weatherstripping and paint, the AC needs to be overhauled, and I’d have it bored out to 368/6.0L or bored and stroked to 385/6.3L or 415/6.8L if the cylinder liners are still available) and making it my daily driver again.

  16. Dear folks,
    many of us were thrilled on the situation of Saab and we felt that its time to stay up together to save our beloved car manufacturer. And we did a great job and everybody here can be proud to belong to a distinct type of car-lovers those identify the spirit of Saab for their own one in automobiles and perhaps even beyond. Yes, indeed, it truly, was a thrilling struggle for survive. But its over now and I feel that the spirit of Saab neither lays in the estates or production bands but in the people who build, maintain and drive Saabs!
    These people are still here, maybe no new Saab is produced and this is a disaster for our friends in Trollhätten but thanks to NEVS there is hope and we all should keep the fingers crossed that the people those gratefully provided us with these individualistic car have a bright future by working for NEVS whatever they build. And what about us? Should we stay in continuous discussions what NEVS want to do? Is there nothing else?…..
    Every morning when I start my Saab that is with me since it was born back in 1999, I know why I love Saab cars. It looks different, drives different, sounds different, behaves different than other premium cars and THAT makes it my Saab, the care I truly love to drive. And that’s what is all about. And independently what NEVS will build, my Saab is here and makes my smile every day when I drive this vehicle.
    Please, let’s watching NEVS, but let’s go back to that what we really enjoy: stories on Saab. Its we who are responsible whether or not Saab dies!

    Accordingly, we can stick to a unlimited discussion on NEVS, Mahindra, etc. or we can stand for the existing Saab. Therefore, I want to say, let’s start enjoying our Saabs, lets share our great journeys with these cars, our experiences and, thus, let’s keep Saab’s spirit alive!

    Let’s change our mind from “Stay calm and carry on” to “Enjoy driving our great Saabs”.

    • Yes, You got the point wfg! That’s exactly what we should do…I enjoy cruising with my Convertible…sunny weather…30° C…open roof…and the sound from the “Hirsch” exhaust in my ears:-)!

  17. Vagabond

    Just a prime example of the complete lack of viability of an EV in the world today and why, as of now & without major changes to them, I’ll never buy one and will only own gas powered cars and only buy gas powered for my wife to drive. I don’t care if I work 2000 feet from home, I’ll still drive my gas powered car only. Never an EV. (again, until there are major improvements to let reconsider. But I highly doubt I’ll ever buy or drive an EV in my lifetime and I’m only 30)

  18. This is a good comment from Till72. As far as I can see, NEVS have plainly stated they intend to make electric Saab cars. At the moment presumably they are negotiating with Saab AB on licensing the name, alongside a great many other things that we know nothing about. And that is the trouble: there is sure to be a lot going on but we have no reliable insider knowledge of it. Some of the criticisms about the quality of “news” from SU lately have been valid in that regard. That Jiang has resigned other posts to focus on this new job and set himself up in Trollhattan is a fact, and for me it speaks louder than a hundred flaky rumours or bits of unsubstantiated gossip. I am keen to see what NEVS have to say for themselves when the time comes.

    • Funny because what you say here is almost word for word what I said on the previous thread and was told his moving and leaving of a CEO position elsewhere meant nothing and to me this is a very good sign of commitment to the job at hand.

      • Agreed. He is obviously committed to the job at hand. The question remains is what is the job at hand. He may be entirely committed to making the NEVS EV with zero thought of a hybrid in partnership with M+M or someone else, or not?

        • Yes hughw, you’re dead right there! “What is the job at hand”? I hate to say it, but I cannot be confident about NEVS, I have heard nothing to make me feel confident as yet. Most of the world knew little about our beloved Saab, a lack of adequate marketing and advertising made sure of that, but now we have even less and with little sign of improvement since NEVS became the bidder of choice! It is only us Saab fans and the good people of Trollhattan who are really interested in all of this, the rest of the world just doesn’t care and up to now NEVS are doing nothing to promote themselves as anything at all, let alone a car making business that wants to enter the global car market! It’s all so very sad and very frustrating.

  19. Now we have to remember Saab Automobile is very small in Thn with only 19 employees today. The largest company in Thn is Volvo Aero Corporation with about 2.300 employees. It will take a long time before Saab Automobile is a big company and can produce 1.000’s of cars. It’s a start from scratch, and a very slow start. I’m of course very sad. One year ago Saab Automobile was the largest company in Thn.

    • About a year ago Saab couldn’t pay its employees 🙁 I’d rather they start small if that’s what it takes to stay afloat. I wonder how much Saab expanded under GM? What were their employment numbers like in the 80s?

      • I think you’ll find that Saab staff numbers were higher in the eighties. The (OG) 900 was very labour intensive to build and Saab also had the Malmo plant running too.

        • 1985-1989 it was more than 8.000 employees at Saab in Thn. In April 2009 it was 4.100 employees at Saab Automobile and 3.700 of them in Thn. Volvo Aero have today about 2.300 employees. Saab Automobile was a lot bigger than Volvo Aero over a lot of years. Anyway Saab was the owner of the Aero Factory the years 1937-1941 (it was upstarted by Nohab, Bofors and Elektrolux).

    • They may have to basically rent the use of the name, maybe not own it, that as the article say, could cost a lot of money each year! It also states that Jiang’s company relies on heavy state aid in China and has still not returned adequate profits. I just wish NEVS would start to show their hand, whatever it is! But if it’s all EV’s then I guess there will be yet another saga like this in the not too distant future.

    • The CNBC article also reports that Kai Johan Jiang says he believes the NEVS will be profitable in 10 years!, which, to me, seems an disturbingly alarming long time.

        • If NEVS could just get off it’s high horse and and also consider conventional diesel/petrol/E85 and hybrids it might not have to suffer losses for such a long period. I still feel that actually building any cars might be quite secondary to it’s main aims?

          • Markac, I fear that you are not the only person who thinks this way! I struggle to be enthusiastic about anything related to NEVS. To start a business that aims to accept a loss for ten years seems very odd and in the economic climate at the present time, it looks very strange indeed.

  20. That article did not provide much in the way of reassurances. As Skipper mentioned, the article states some things that – if 100% factual – are very scary. Specifically the financials of Jiangs other endevour. 

    If that business is not turning profits after this amount of time and he is still reliant on heavy backing from government aid then it means one of two things, either:

    A) The world is not ready for the industry or product on a scale or size that he is pushing that company towards and it needs to shrink and focus on R&D solely until it is a truly acceptable alternative. 

    or

    B) He is a terrible business man that hasn’t been able to get his house in order and figure out how to manage his controllables or at least put people in place that are strong in the areas he is weak. 

    Sadly, both of these possibilities point to danger for an attempted revival of SAAB under his watch. 

    Another issue that I, as do many of you, have with NEVS/Jiang is the covert espionage like secrecy they are operating under.  

    There is a very easy to reach middle ground that some on SU have touched on already; we don’t the need SWAN/VM style of divulging information. Just a basic “we would like to expand our product portfolio beyond EVs and include hybrids and/or ICE powered vehicles and are exploring our options”. That would be enough; basic communication. Then if deal #1 falls through, well we won’t know because that is just part of “exploring their options”.  A simple solution would be an e-newsletter – perhaps released every 15 days/twice monthly – that communicates along those lines. I know I would sign up for that as it would correct one of my primary concerns. 

    Right now it’s like they want to use the secrecy to maintain interest in themselves/NEVS through publicity by those interested in and reporting on SAAB and then, finally, when they are happy enough with what they’ve gleaned then they will come out and say “oh we had no interest in the SAAB name or branding, nor manufacturing SAABs, at anytime during our purchasing of the assets.” and they will be able to say “look back, we never reported on nor ever said in any way that we wanted to use SAAB in our plans”.  

    I know that’s a negative view and heavily based in conspiracy theory but their own lack of baseline communication is what causes that. 

    Like I said, they don’t need to spell out every “ABC” and “XYZ” of their plans or day to day operations. In China the secrecy might work, in China the consumers may just purchase what they are told to purchase; BUT the rest of the world is not China and – if you have plans for ever selling anything in any other place besides China – you better be aware that the majority of consumers will only pay attention to and spend their money on a product/service/company that at least says “this is what we are going to offer you in exchange for your money.”

    I’m still willing to take a wait and see approach. But the lack of clear communication and not conveying of plans or base details is not making it easier; and not helping him / NEVS.

    It appears as though it doesn’t matter to them, and maybe right now it doesn’t, and because they are not a product offering based company at the moment they don’t feel the pain yet. But when the day comes that they are…well they are on a path towards finding out the hard way what happens when you build zero equity of goodwill in the marketplace, especially a marketplace as crowded and competitive as the automobile sector. 

  21. Dear all,

    Regarding the Indian involvement ( Mahindra), there has been no response from the company as I did contact them regarding their involvement. I have mentioned that in an article on the website I work with.

    Question asked,
    Hi,

    I’m writing in on behalf of rushlane.com requesting a statement in regard to

    ‘any association between Mahindra & Mahindra ( company itself, or any entity of Mahindra’s) association in part or full, or as a joint venture or through any of their subsidiaries with Saab AB and/or NEVS’.

    Thank you in advance.

    Regards,
    Nabanita.

    Response,

    “Dear Nabanita,

    As a company policy we do not comment on speculative stories.”

    And that’s that. I will continue trying.

    • seems pretty much a standard response, I don’t expect we’ll get a direct response until an announcement, just seems the way they do business.

    • Good for them! if only Muller had maintained this kind of policy, the deal would probably have been closed with investors much sooner. oftentimes, pre-announcing deals before the papers have been signed can kill the deal off – or make things much more expensive.

  22. So basically……no comment! I can’t say that I’m surprised about that to be honest. 😉 That is one of the most frustrating things about this whole affair, the lack of information. We can only hope for the best I guess.

  23. Spoke to what is left of my dealership yesterday, and they, who had always been upbeat, said that Saab is done. The problem is there is not another car out there that handles the way Saab does, and gave me the amount of miles that Saab did. Someone has to realize that there is a market for a quality European car that doesn’t have to think it’s a race car and market it. Maybe, just maybe there will be another Saab someday.

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