What I drive now while waiting for a future swedish sportscar.

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As Tim Rokka mentioned in his last posting here that he has ordered a BMW 428i Xdrive. For the last two months I have been the happy owner of a BMW M4 Coupe. Last week I had a pilgrimage to Germany visiting BMW Welt + Museum and production facility in Munich. From there to a racing course at Sachsenring via a stop at the Audi Museum in Ingolstadt. The M4 is for me that Saab 9X or AEROX that Saab never made. The former owner Spyker had some racing cars but they where in my opinion sort of kit cars with an Audi engine and 100% impractical and just space for 2 people without any luggage. My present M4 has enough space to go to the BMW dealership and pick up a set of 255/40/18 wheels inside the car. Just folding the rear backrest and all the wheels fit.
It is my first rear driven car ever and I really look forward to this new relationship. Handling wise it is a supercar german motor magazine drove it on Nürburgring in 7:53 minutes. I managed in my very first timed slalom drive at the Sachsenring circuit get the best time. First time for me in a slalom in a rear wheel driven car.

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At Sachsenring Circuit near Dresden, Germany

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At the BMW welt (World) with the BMW Headquarters and Museum in the background

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MY favorite racing car of all times the BMW 3.5 CSL in the original M livery that has inspired me to att the racing colors to my M4. Swedish Formula 1 driver Ronnie Peterson raced BMW when not in the Lotus or March cars.

Now I am off to pick up newly blasted chassis part for my Saab 99 Turbo 4 door car. I will post more on that project here on SaabsUnited. All You guys know where the SU crew hearts are!

112 thoughts on “What I drive now while waiting for a future swedish sportscar.”

    • No I will keep my avatar, my 3 99 Turbo cars and the 96 V4 MonteCarlo. I also have plans to recreate the 92 car that Greta Molander drove in the 1950 Monte Carlo Rally. Working on convicing the present owner to let it go from the barn it has been in for the last 30 years.

  4. I also love the E9 Bimmers. My dad owns a 2000CS (body by karmman) and its just the sweetest little coupe. The new M3/M4 is an absolute monster of a car. Congratulations on your new ride. As for my Saab replacement – I’m thinking perhaps a PoleStar version of the Volvo Coupe concept (better yet the shooting brake version if they ever build it) with Volvo’s Next-Gen 450hp 4-cyclinder engine might replace the NG9-5 Aero.

  6. Great article. If it was posted on the BMW blog. I must ask what the interest would be for a SAAB blog site to write about BMW and their models, museum etc.? Here is my advice and feedback as a SAAB fan reading SAABSUNITED as often as I can: Write the 99 turbo article and replace this article with that one 🙂 The BMW cars and their history are fabulous but they belong to the other blog. Sincerely, one of your readers.

      • When there’s a pathetic trickle of news about NEVS, I’m sure it’ll be covered here. Until then—-if the site has to survive with photos of BMWs or even recipes for creole bow tie pasta baked with chicken, I’m in. The drought of Saab news since the Spring of 2012 has been depressing.

        • I agree Angelo…. Guys, face it, right now Saab is dead legally at least, the brand name… Nevs? well that is all together another sad sad story.

          Any how, show all kinds of new stuff why not? Until something really happens its fun ,,, keeps us informed.

    • +1 this blog is about Saab and Saab only; If anything, then maybe occasionally also about Spyker, that fantastic Dutch sportscar design 🙂 , or Jaguar…but surely not about characterless teutonic efficiency..

    • Hum… during Spyker era Saab 9-3NG was supposed to host a PSA/BMW engine, the Prince 1.6 liter. Previous Saab cars hosted german components too : ZF gear box (just like BMW cars), etc. Talking about BMW cars here isn’t so improper then. However, comparing Saab to BMW is unfair since the two companies don’t offer the same quality level.
      ___
      PSA = Peugeot Société Anonyme, french car company.

    • I completely agree and while I don’t know what revenue this site may still generate, the fastest way to kill it is to advertise for other cars. Lets make everyone here question their own choices by waving new BMWs (or other alternatives) in their face. Yes, I get that there are no new Saab choices out there currently, I get that the authors are Saab fans at heart, I get that I have no skin in this website as a business (nevermind the $90 in skin on my NG 9-4 & 9-5). My drive to work is one big commercial for every other car out there so I don’t come here to see more of the same. I think you’re going to kill what traffic you get here

      Come on, we Saab fans who still check this blog are used to living on crumbs. We don’t need to see the juicy steak you bought at the restaurant next door.

      Audi, yawn. Mercedes, yawn. BMW? March in line with the ten million other boring easy choices out there.

  7. “The former owner Spyker had some racing cars but they where in my opinion sort of kit cars with an Audi engine”

    You truly are a joke Trued

      • Of course, you’re entitled to have an opinion on your own (subjective) driving experience in the Spyker (in fact, I also drove that specific LM85), i.e. you think it drives crappy, but all above statements coming from you about how it’s supposedly been built or designed are just plain ignorance.

  9. It seems this is turning into a pro-BMW blog…, kinda sad actually..
    In the 80s I used to ‘blow the doors out’ of BMW 323i and Golf GTi’s with my first Saab, a 99 Turbo (especially on wet pavement… 😉 )
    Later on in the 90s I was amazed at the superiority of the 9000 compared to the 5-series BMW..
    But the biggest difference was always the owners/drivers; almost the complete opposite, totally different kinda persons…
    I always felt much more affinity with the friendly, intelligent drivers of Swedish cars than some of the ‘sporty’, snobby BMW people, thinking they are sooo superior….

    • Eagle63,
      It is time to wake up from the fairytale dreams. BMW is today a superior brand. That is a fact. Saab would have most probably not been able to reach the heights of that brand.
      My M4 serves great old Saab virtues. Drive abilities, smooth gliding around, great cargo hauler with foldable rear seat. Super competent racer car. It is pure power on demand, and low fuel consumption as the frosting of the cake. In engine technology BMW are leaders, remember that Saab was about to take the BMW engines to the Phoenix.

      • “BMW is today a superior brand. That is a fact.” – that is most certainly not fact. That is subjective opinion. Your subjective opinion. Which you’re expressing on a Saab site. What are you doing? And what’s with the dig at Spyker?!?!?

        • I am by NO means a BMW fan, but I will come to his defense. BMW is a superior brand today. You know why? Because, today, there is essentially no Saab. I love my Epsilon-chassis Saab 9-3. But anybody that tries to assert that an 11-year old car is superior to a contemporary BMW M3/M4 is living in a fairytale land. And not a very good fairytale land.

          The lack of Saab news is depressing. But it’s nice to be able to come to SaabsUnited and read something new.

          • Thanks Patrik H- My 2004 9-3 CV is a great performer and so is my 99 Turbos with the right shocks/springs/bushings/adjustments making the 99´s feel like a modern car even if the car model is soon 50 years old. It is good to have a change of heart but i enjoy being a bigamist! The more the merrier. All You who read the various religious scriptures to the letter, I think You should go to a couple of dealerships and try out various models. So did I M-B, AutoUnion (Audi), BMW and ovloV.
            I drove those brands top-of-the-line cars quite hard and the winner was BMW. I also had discussions with an ex. Saab Chassis Manager and we both agreed on who has the best chassis. You see I am VERY picky and sensitive about vehicle kinematics and settings. I have been building my own SAABs so I know (7 to be precise). all of the for competition.

            • Trued, it sounds like you made a wonderful choice and are a true car fan!

              I think what people are forgetting is that it is perfectly OKAY to love other cars besides Saab! Especially since there aren’t any new Saabs being made….

        • Luke is absolutely correct. BMW might not be for everyone, but his contention that it’s a “superior brand” is indeed, FACT. The BMW brand is incredibly strong right now.

              • Luke: When it comes to the product, “superior” is subjective. So if your point was that it’s false to claim that BMW cars are “superior” you are absolutely right. What’s superior to one person is crap to another. But when it comes to “the brand” I think it’s very clear that it’s a “superior” brand—-definitely near the top of the list as far as perception goes—a brand that many aspire to. Apple is a superior brand, even though some people might prefer other phones or computer products—-but the brand is strong.

  10. I’m holding my tongue here and on my best behaviour: I shall simply say that maybe it’s time for Tim et al to pass on the SU torch. It’s fine that you guys are moving on, but there are still hundreds of thousands of Saab drivers all over the world. I bought 2 Saabs this month and am supporting my local ‘main dealer’ who still believes there might be some fairytale ending to all of this. Now that is a Saab guy.

    • Luke Mallory, hey hold Your horses….. I still have a jam packed garage with SAAB there is no moving on. FCONL I have just bought one hell of a ride. What is the matter with some of You?
      We in SU crew has NO present insight in what is happening with SAAB it is radio-silence so to speak!

  12. Hey guys put some band aid on your sore toes.
    There are no Saabs made in my hometown Trollhättan any more and probably not on the next 3–5 years. Let’s be open about other brands as well. Love my 6 present Saabs BUT I want to have a new modern car as well. I sold my 9-5 NG since I am not interested having a 3 year old modern hobby car with limited supplies of spare parts and no company backing up warranties.
    Do not even try to insinuate where my automotive interest is! I take that as a personal insult. Those of you moaning are most probably not true car Entusiast.

    • We have a saying here in Sweden
      “The way satan reads the bible”, come on sure You must be able to progress and see good things in other cars. This is starting to sound beyond comprehension to me. I have been thinking about what some of You have written here today while painting chassis part for my SAAB 99 Turbo. I am professionally concerned about some of You guys. What would You do if there are no new Saabs ever again. There is a great chance that Saab AB (military Saab) NEVER will let anyone make a car with that name in a smiling grille!

    • Trued I agree,,, I find it interesting to look at new stuff and discuss it… Some just can’t face the reality, as of RIGHT NOW Saab is dead. Just the facts people.. Until something happens just the facts. The Spirit can live on but eventually overtime that fades too.

        • I agree too. I liken this to being a fan of a football team—and being so focused on that team (for example, being a Giants fan) that you don’t know anything about any of the other teams. That means you’re a Giants fan, but not really a football fan. You can name every Giants player—-you can’t name more than a handful of players in the rest of the league. Ditto, this discussion. There’s a whole world of cars worthy of discussing, especially on a site devoted to a company that hasn’t seriously built cars since 2011—three years ago. And there are no firm plans to build anymore of them. And for all we know, the company won’t be in existence much longer. Hopefully things can come together and Saab will be back. But for now, there’s noting “Saab” to talk about in a current sense—-a current state of affairs. As for the Mullermobiles being “hobby cars” I know that got on the nerves of some people—-but the fact is, the parts supply for Chevy Corvairs (last made in 1969) is probably far healthier than 9-4 or Vic’s 9-5. If you have to wait more than a week or so for parts to keep your car on the road—-it starts to fall into the “hobby car” category, as it can’t be taken seriously as a daily driver. How long was the wait for windshields? How long will body panels be readily available? When you turn to calling junkyards and searching for used parts on the internet, you get very close to that “hobby” category indeed.

  13. Nice car indeed, we are certainly all pleased you ride on BMW now.

    NEVS isn’t dead yet though. Saabsunited could talk about companies that are also (trying to) developping electric cars. Detroit Electric, an old american brand, has been revived in 2008. After delays and fundings difficulties, just like Saab, Albert Lam (CEO) has introduced the car in 2013 (the SP:01 based on Lotus Elise chassis), and new emblem in october 2014. Unlike KJJ, Albert Lam bet on luxury sport cars branch. He has formed EV venture with China’s Geely in 2013 to develop classic electric cars though (chinese market), just what KJJ is trying to do for NEVS (then Saab Automobile).

    Is there really any market for EV’s ? BYD, another chinese brand, sells a lot of its e6 MPV both in China and Europe. BYD just has won contract to provide electric taxis for Brussels (beating out Renault and Nissan).

    A futur is possible for NEVS.

  14. That’s it. There are lots of good people around here, but if I constantly have to put up with BMW and Lexus and …whatever, I prefer to leave. This blog contributed for many good things, true, but it has lost the Saab soul for a while. And even if the brand exists no more, I would rather read about old Saabs or Saab related stories than about brands so big that don’t need any more advertisement.
    Fortunately, there are still a few good Saab blogs and I feel that I should pay them a lot more of attention.
    There’s a saying “If it ain’t fun, don’t do it” – That’s what I thing about this blog lately.

    I will delete my account right after this post, wishing everybody the best of luck for their personal life and their projects, even if they aren’t Saab related.

    Regards
    Dave

    • I think the owner’s of the SU blog ought to look at saabblog_dot_net to see how a Saab blog should be run. It’s worth using Google Translate to read it. They write a lot of speculative stuff, but it’s fun and it’s about Saab!
      I’ll keep coming back here though — I’m a glutton for punishment.

    • I agree Dave, to many negative comments on here.
      I own a 2007 95 aero . Good or bad news this site should be about saabs!!
      I can fully understand Tims decision to buy another brand as he is doing high mileage.
      However for people like me who are only doing about 10,000 a year it is not a problem to keep there saab , look after it and it will serve them well for years to come !
      Tims comments about supply of parts worries me as it could scare many saab owners into getting rid of there cars.

    • I thought you had done that already Dave, you’ve certainly claimed to have been gone before but yet you keep on coming back? We’ve had 8 posts in total about other brands in the past 3 years, 8 posts out of 3692 posts in total… so yeah we are constantly pushing you guys towards BMW???… you are a joke Dave…!

      • At the front page of SU today You have 3 out 11 posts about BMW. It’s your blog. You do what You want with it but when readers react like this you should probably better be listening.

        Speaking for myself I don’t give a damn about Trueds BMW’s. Good for him if he like it but I don’t go here to read about you selling your last Saab for a BMW or Trued’s new toy. If You don’t write about Saab, Saabs or anything else Saab related I’m gone. When I come here I expect Saab related posts…

        • Well, I think if nothing else, it’s naturally interesting to read about what Saab lovers will move to next, considering the fact that many rade4rs here will need a new car before Saab returns—-if they ever return. I think it’s fine to have that discussion and amongst the administrators, photos of their cars as well as how they arrived at their decision is more interesting to me than some other things that are written about. Truly, it would be a lot of fun to see a graph showing what Saab owners (who would have bought another one) turn to as their next car. Will they go for a competent Korean car? Will they go with Subaru or Mazda? Volkswagen? BMW or Audi? Will some in the U.S. go to Fiat/Chrysler or Ford? Buick, as there are still some links between that brand and Muller’s Saabs? I think most people feel Volvo will be the catch-all for Saab drivers, having Swedish safety and DNA. But are those people right? Is it that simple?

          • Sorry, not going to be fooled into buying a Chinese made long wheelbase S60 Volvo will be exporting to the USA next year. You know the price won’t be reduced. Other automakers will be watching very, very closely. Personally, I think this is suicide for Volvo in the US (unless they think they can attract an entirely different clientele). We shall soon see.

            • The Chinese-built Volvo S60 L signals the beginning of the end of Swedish-manufactured Volvos, no doubt about that (though some people are too naive or starry-eyed to realize it or admit it to themselves, no doubt in part because the long lead times of the auto industry haven’t made it happen yet).

              The question is whether this will kill the Volvo brand with it, or whether it will finally spur mainstream acceptance of Chinese-built cars. It could go either way.

              • Why would it be the end of Swedish-manufactured Volvos? Are you aware of how big investments Geely has made in Sweden, with 50% increased production capacity in Gothenburg for the coming years?

                Lots of European and American car manufacturers build cars in China and it sure hasn’t stopped them from keep producing cars in their original country as well. Why would Volvo stop that?

                  • Ok so that’s the decisive difference? Volvo is Chinese-owned which inevitably means they will move all production to China? Is it typical for Chinese companies to act like that? Is that what they do with all their investments in USA and Europe? Take it down and move it to China?

                    Even if economic reality (transport and customs) makes it more profitable for Asian car manufacturers to produce cars locally for Europe and North America, and even though Geely has invested heavily in Volvo manufacturing capacity and R&D in Sweden and Belgium, they will still close it down and move everything to China? When do you think this will actually happen? In 2 years? 10 years? 25 years? Just so I can prepare myself for the shock. 🙂

                    • They will do whatever they think will make the most money for them and be the best thing for their company. In China, since the government is more intertwined with businesses than most Western countries—-what’s good for China might also be a consideration. So if they can provide jobs and at the same time, build the product for less money, that adds up to more profit and more productivity in China and exports are better than imports to some extent. When will it happen? I don’t have a crystal ball, but I would guess that a lot of factors will be involved in the decision of when to move production to China. My guess is that it will be phased in. I don’t think it will be as simple as “This factory is closing and this factory is opening to replace it.” More likely, it’ll be somewhat gradual. NEVS had ambitions of a Chinese factory. My belief is that in the future, if things had gone better for NEVS (i.e. if their plan wasn’t ridiculous) that factory would have absorbed the majority of their manufacturing and the Swedish factory would be slowed down to building fewer cars and having fewer employees—-eventually closing perhaps. Among the numbers you threw out, 10 years seems possible as a third product cycle might be in progress by then.

                    • I think Angelo is right. And it will indeed be phased in. One particular acronym we’re bound to see a lot of in the future is “CKD”. It means “Complete Knock Down”, i.e. a kit of parts from which one can assemble a complete car. The Chinese owner of the formerly British brand MG use these already from what I’ve heard – they send CKD kits from China for final assembly in the UK, thus their cars are “Made in the UK” even though all the parts required to build them have been manufactured in China, with only the finishing touches made in the UK. My guess is that stage one will be for “Swedish” Volvos to be assembled from Chinese-made CKD kits, and stage two will be to move the production to China.

                    • To some extent, I agree with you. I remember when Volvos Chinese factory opened a while ago, Volvo CEO Håkan Samuelsson said this would be a good way to evaluate Chinese/Asian sub-suppliers. If the suppliers can deliver good quality parts for the Chinese factory, then there is nothing to say they can’t also deliver the same parts to European factories.

                      Exporting parts from China to Europe will be much more cost efficient compared to exporting complete cars, so definitely this will happen. It already happens, and Volvo is not alone in this. International automotive suppliers like Delphi, Magna and Bosch produce parts in China that ends up in cars produced in Europe and North America.

                      One can always debate what nationality a specific car has. Is the nationality where the car was designed and developed, or is the nationality where the car was assembled? Or is the nationality maybe the country where most of the parts for the car was produced, or simply just the country of the majority owner? As mentioned in another post, VW and BMW has successfully made their customers believe in “German Engineering” even though the cars are actually produced/assembled in USA and Mexico.

                      I agree that Chinese and Asian production will play a big part of Volvo’s future but at the same time I feel confident that R&D as well as assembly factories for the European and American market will remain in Sweden and Belgium for the forseeable future – at least the next 20 years or so.

          • Yes it is; when eventually the time comes to trade in my 9-3 (and Saab hasn’t brought back to life) I will buy a Volvo XC60.
            I considered Audi (too Germanic), Subaru (great engines but too low grade interior), Porsche (the best but too expensive) and Ford (too mainstream).
            Volvo is safe, Swedish, has interesting new engine technology, has a very nice and tastefull interior and no overly aggresive looks (like many BMWs have).

  15. As a owner of 2010 9-3 I get people are looking elsewhere, but if I want to read up on a M4 (great car btw!) I go to a BMW site. Same with Volvo, Acura, Subaru, etc. That said, it isn’t my site and as a lover of cars I do enjoy the posts. Perhaps these write-ups on other makes/models go straight to the forums?

    This main page should be for uniting the Saab community hence SaabsUnited!

  17. It’s a very sad day for the SaabsUnited (and global Saab) community when two of the site’s key figures talk, or brag, about their new BMWs.

    • SaabKen, Tim has nothing to brag about yet so please direct any negative criticism against me, please. Was it so hard to read that I have been on a trip to Germany? Bragging? I do not get it. I can brag about my Saabs if You like me to. My rally Saabs with limited slip differential can do……. and that….
      I am presently thinking about how I should get as many of my Saab cars to the next International SAAB festival. I have been talking to some other big time collectors about, “renting” them to foreign visitors who can not bring their cars over to Sweden. Making the next festival the BIGGEST ever!
      So please stop flood of tears…. There is no need for it trust me.
      Bottom line remember both Tim and I are born in Trollhättan. That should say it all to You about our connection to the brand and the families and people of Trollhättan- PERIOD! “The Buck Stops Here”

  18. OK, an M3 is an M3 (pardon me, today it’s M4) in the motor industry, and congratulations to your purchase and have fun and be safe with it.

    This is with all due respect to the creators and editors, and to Trued, our 99 restorer- and car racer guru…. But yes this bimmer thing might have grown on us really over the top now. Saab is Saab and BMW can’t take over a Saab blog because the authors start to claim “It’s a so hard fact and superior you just gotta gulp this and sit down”. Actually, there are / or there are not superior brands to Saab, this is a question of subjectivity. One could come and say the Mercedes is superior and the other that the Range Rover is superior, but why not Porsche, Ferrari or whatever? They are all great, but then Saab is also great. Past or not past – this is not finalized yet and so not relevant at the moment in this debate.

    This is all fine but then the same should be the case concerning all other brands, representing all premium brands in equal portions. Most probably it would be a classy, interesting and respectful way of keeping this iconic site alive. Or, in an even more comfortable way, keep it Saab only…

    I am open to other brands too, if I need a specific vehicle (eg. an off road car) that Saab does not offer or not good enough. But it doesn’t mean I will post about my Merc G Wagen / Range Rover or anything else here, because simply it’s unfitting I guess.

    I do not even dare to mention that BMW can be good or not (a Z4 roadster just broke down after a simple oil change at my Saab Service, with 25k miles on the clock, it should’ve been just bulletproof, shouldn’t it? I never heard a Saab engine smother this bad, with such a weird noise) and also we can’t cast away the topic of mixed reputation the brand gained worldwide. Yes, that reputation is there and known even if one cares or doesn’t, and also the design which is not fitting everyone’s taste, to be soft. And so what. You can’t convince everyone to adore the brand. Neither can you do this with saab, but HERE we do not have to… And afterall, Saab’s the nicest, safest and best, hands down!

  19. Hey – you have been close to were I live. The Sachsenring Circuit is close to the city of Chemnitz. A historic place for all motor enthusiasts. Amongst lots of other keypoints in motorcar history, the Grandpa of the SAAB twostroke engine has been developed and manufactured here before WWII. I will stick to my two 9k and to my 900. Seems SAAB is getting to a youngtimer brand for the time now. Here in Saxony – we also have a strong SAAB community too. There is a meeting with roundtrip organized two times in a year.

  20. Michael, at the Audi Museum in Ingolstadt I “met” with the AUTO-UNION DKW two strokers that Saab built on license for almost 20 years in 2 and 3 cylinder versions. Interesting how the european car industry is connected. Some of the laps at Sachsenring can be seen at my Youtube, Trued1 (where also a lot of my Saab movies can be enjoyed)

    • Could you please offer any proof that Saab paid any licensing fees to DKW? Every book on Saab’s history that I have read states that one reason Saab chose the 2 cycle was that patents were conveniently expiring and, therefore, they would be spared the expense of licensing fees. Secondly, from what I see in “The High-Speed Two-Stroke Petrol Engine” by Philip H. Smith, 1965, the internals of Saab’s 3 cylinder engine bore no resemblance whatsoever to DKW’s 3 cylinder.
      Sorry, but this is a little issue that bugs me, and I would like to see proof, one way or the other.

      • From what I have read so far, the SAAB twostroke is NO DKW license. Perhaps the very first URSAAB prototype had a DKW engine installed ??? Dont know. The SAAB engineers for sure went into all details with an original DKW engine. But they decided to built a new design with a lot of impoved details compared to the DKW engines. I have been told, that a german based company called Hentschel situated in Rostock helped SAAB with engineering the new twostroker. All in all, a very intresting chapter of history. If you lock in yourself for some days into the SAAB museum, perhaps all can be clarified. 🙂

        • Yes, I’ve read that URSAAB was fitted with a DKW engine, but only URSAAB. Thanks for the info.
          And, oh how I wish I could get locked in the SAAB museum. 🙂

  21. What we are witnessing above, is a transition.
    True SAAB fanatics will transition to a group of folks keeping their cars interesting by adding modifications, creating customized rides, in the absence of new vehicles coming from the factory.
    Some folks, understandably, are showing anger and frustration over the reality that it is likely “over” for the brand, and are having difficulty in seeing SU leadership moving on in some ways. It is exemplary of an admission to the current status of the brand.

  22. All the M’s and now the M4 are really nice cars, no question about it. While I was extremely happy with my Saab 900 SE Coupe in 1996, one of my friends had a 328i Coupe 1996 and the dynamics were like night and day. In direct comparison, the BMW manual gearbox was really nice with a solid feel, while the Saab was a bit spongy. The BMW steering was crisp and direct with amazing road feel, likely due to chassi tune and the RWD. The 900 was very front heavy, steering a bit indirect and with torque steer when pushing it. Having said that, my Saab was still fantastic and versatile. 5 good seats, huge trunk and the rear row easily foldable. Did I say black panel…? The coupe was beautiful to look at, and everything was cheaper, especially parts and service.

    Still, the main reason for me not to get a BMW is all the other [email protected] witts driving BMW’s. Obviously not Trued, Tim or my mentioned friend (now in an X5), but how come that (at least in Sweden) that a majority the BMW drivers drive like degenerates, sociopaths or other similar terms? If keeping with speed limitations, every other car overtaking seems to be a BMW with a driver in an extreme rush to a extremely important appointment/meeting/flight/operation…..????? I just don’t get it???!!! It’s almost comical.

    I’d guesstimate that more than half of todays BMW drivers have serious issues that they try to address by driving their BMW in psychopathic manners.

    I’d also guesstimate that over 90% of all Saab driver are really nice people… 😉

    Rant over…. Häpp!

      • The same in Hungary for the last 20 years now or so. (With the passage that with the beginning of the Bangle-era, the scene got a bit bursted/diversified but no big overall improvements, moral-wise at least.) But the worst news is that a lot of other brands’ drivers started to claim and copy the “BMW Fanatics” “pregorative” conduct for themselves and so everything got even worse. 🙂

  24. Nice car, I’d have not gotten the colorful graphics, not my taste, but not my money either. I like BMW’s motorcycles, I have owned several and still have my R1150RS, their cars are OK, I’ve shopped for them bought never bought one. In fact I bought my first new Saab 9-3 convertible over the BMW 3 series convertible in 1999 – at the time the Saab was much more for the money at that time. A better convertible for sure. Working for a German company and visiting there at least once a year for past 20 years I found it surprising the number of German born Germans who don’t like (and would not buy) BMW 3 series cars and not because it is a bad car but because of the stereotypical owner and owner attitude. But I wondered if that was an incentive to create the 4 series to create some distance for their home market buyers. It’s odd to consider that the owner profile could tarnish a brand image but then I can see that here with cars like Cadillac.

    • BMW bikes seem to be going the way of their cars. Performance and the associated complexity seem to be dominating their new bike designs as evidenced by the introduction of limited water cooling on the opposed twins. I guess this is necessary to achieve more power, but BMW already has a line of fours with leading edge performance as well as water cooled vertical twins. Incidently, I also ride a BMW 1150 (R model) and have never owned one of their cars.

  25. It seems some people here on BMWUnited have a ‘superiority complex’. They must have equipment that they perceive as being ‘the best’, with much less emphasis to other important factors, like heritage, design philosophy, character etc.

    If its superiority you’re after you should never have come to Saab; Saab is about being different and unconventional, about safety, ‘Swedishness’ and having a link with aviation (a 9000 or pre-2007 9-3 with push-button dash exudes a very aircraft-like atmosphere that no BMW can match).

    Cars are a lot like people; I prefer to hang out with the friendly, pleasant and interesting folks instead of the ones that always had the best grades at school and now wear armani suits.
    Come to think of it; my best friends wear jeans and drive pickup trucks, Jeeps, SUVs and an occasional 9-7X….. 🙂

    And if you do insist on true allround ‘superiority’, go buy a 550 hp Porsche Cayenne Turbo instead….

    • Eagle63, sounds almost like my US High School widleback receiver number at Centennial HS “Eagles” Gresham, OR.
      Soaring high over the automotive world, there is no need to categorize people in good and bad. And worst of all act accordingly with some of the 7 sins (or should we say the 7 good deeds). We all have different possibilities in life I gave been graced with the possibility through contacts and action to own some of the very best SAAB out there. parallell to that I have built with my bare hands a handful of great SAAB cars. As a swede and to some degree american I see no more Swedishness in last model Saabs, as Germaness in a Bimmer. HUD in my ex. NG 9-5 was sub-standard to be honest LOW-res from an 10 year old Corvette, swedish aviation no I do not think so. Both Tim and I are professionals in the field of aviation and we know what is a good work environment for a pilot. Saab cars stopped having aviation qualities in the cars 2001. I can give lots of “proofs” of this. Even the 9-3 2003- has a poor MMI. Saab let the marketing people always draw the long straw.

      • A good work environment for a pilot?
        Sully had something to say about it: http://youtu.be/kERSSRJant0

        As captain of an ‘un-superior’ Saab 340 (training for the Canadair RegionalJet though) I feel way more at home in most Saabs than in yet another ‘avantgardistical’ german car; they’ll be obsolete and out of date in about 10 years or so and all the snobs will have gone on to the newer even more ‘superior’ models since the old ones are now ‘sub-standard’.
        Luckily it doesn’t work that way in aviation….

        I must admit though, that the later model Saabs with the GM switchgear forced upon them kinda lost that aircraft-feel.

      • That substandardishness of the NG9-5 HUD is what made it so very Saab-like. Simple, green, and just the information that you need. New HUDs from BMW, Lexus, etc are a jumbled mess. The idea is great, but drivers don’t need even more distractions.

        Yes, there was too much GM crap in the last Saabs, but for the price, no other vehicles out there have as great of a story behind them. Just seeing the NG9-5 in my drive each morning puts a smile on my face. A somewhat concerned smile, but still a smile.

        • I agree. Even the NG 9-5 cockpit looks way more aviation inspired than the latest BMW dasboards; they just look meaningless and too ‘upscale’ to have any aircraft feel at all. A true flightdeck doesn’t look glitzy..

  26. I drive BMWs every day of my work week, and I have to say I HATE getting in and out of their coupes. Now I understand on a regular basis you won’t be getting in and out 50-100 times per day like me, but I enjoy getting in and out of the sedans much more. Would I buy a coupe over a sedan? Maybe, it’s hard to say, but since I do use them so much it’s a tough call at this point lol.

  27. BMW as a superior car? Maybe in a humble opinion. .I would rather drive a 14 year old SAAB with rust.The whole reason for joining this site (community) was to read, see SAAB products.and articles. I really could care less about reading about how awesome a BMW, Mercedes, Porsche etc…is.

    Besides, my opinion is that any Audi RS is better than any run of the mill BMW.

  28. I still love my NG 9-5 Aero. After reading posts on here over the past month, I have become very worried about future parts availability. Unfortunately, I am not in a very good position to part with my car. If I were to find a buyer, I would have to trade way down..to a rolling appliance. I just can’t bring myself to do that…yet. I wish I had the resources to keep my Saab and buy a 4 or 5 series for my daily driver, but I don’t. Real life sucks sometimes.

  29. I’d never purchase a BMW. I still own my trusty NG900 Turbo but for everyday’s driving I’ve chosen Skoda Superb Combi. Was the biggest company car I could get so that was my choice. I could’ve also get BMW, Audi or Volvo but they’re not really my cup of tea. But if I wouldn’t have children, maybe then I would’ve chosen Volvo V60 (was very good to drive). IMO BMW’s philosophy is different to SAAB’s so that’s why I wouldn’t waste my dime/time on them.

    The Skoda I’ve been using has worked like a charm. Not a single fault, the chassis is quite good, it’ll take me from point A to point B and it’s a totally different car compared to Skodas 30 years ago (which were horrible). But enjoyment… nay, never until I’d get a brand new SAAB… Hope that’ll happen some day.

  30. I can’t find better opposite to Saab than a BMW. And I’ll rather find spare/tuning parts info or look in the history here than a BMW photos. It hurts my eyes on this blog. No matter how I acclaim BMW’s for their technical superiority. Just my cent.

  32. I don’t have a problem with BMW technology; the engines are among the best. What I don’t like are their way too aggresive looks and the glitzy interiors nowadays (that attracts all those maniacs we see driving around like they own the road).

    Some time ago (10 years or so?), BMWs still had professional looking dashboards with lots of small black pushbuttons, similar to many Saabs and aircraft flightdecks.

  35. Why is this car here, isn´t this a site for saabers any more? If you have lost faith in SAAB already why not leave the community as well?

  36. One can have two different cars!
    Thought it was better telling you guys straight up what has happened to say it before the grapevine would get it.
    I am ready to hear confessions from anybody who has or have had a non-Saab. I forgive all sinners,
    As you might have read in this post I STILL have 6 Saab cars. So I feel that I do not need to seek a father.
    The Saab driver without sin please throw the first stone! 😉

  38. I also have sinned…….. about 13 years ago when I bought my wife an S2000 for her 60th birthday. She quickly recovered by replacing it in less than 2 years, with a new 2003 Saab 9-5 Aero SC…… nothing but Saabs since then. And we are fortunate, at age 73, that we now have two Saabs that will probably last us to the end of our motoring lives. We have the 2009 9-3 Aero SC XWD and the 2011 NG 9-5, as daily drivers, as well as the 1986 900T CV, and a handful of 2-stroke Saab 96’s and a Sonett II.

    And I do get it that some much younger folks need to move on with other brands, especially if they are driving over 30K miles per year. But a one-time post, by Trued or others, explaining the decision process should be sufficient. We don’t need to see continuing BMW exposure on this Saab blog; Thank you!

  39. Come on guys. I have more than one car and I always have. I didn’t go telling everyone on this site though.
    I have a 1993 SVT Cobra mustang. When I talk about it I go to A Mustang and Ford forum.
    I have a Saab 9-5 Aero year 2007 and I love it as much as my Mustang but I don’t talk about it on the Ford site.
    As far as selling your last Saab because you are afraid of parts, etc. and owning a Saab blog, I think you are ridiculous.
    If you can afford a brand new 4 series bimmer than you could keep a used Saab as well. This shows you are moving on. I am moving on from this site as well. I will keep my Saab though. I love looking and driving it just as much as my Cobra and my BMW 635 CSI and my Audi RS4.
    Good day.

  41. The dealer where I bought my Saab back in 2004—-moved down the street and they are surviving. Obviously, they haven’t had new Saabs to sell in quite a while. Muller went out of business and NEVS failed. So they are surviving by servicing Saabs and other car lines and selling used Saabs and other used cars. So they went from a shop that sold Saabs and serviced Saabs, to a shop that sells used Saabs and other used cars, services Saabs and services other cars. The point? The point is that when a company has fallen, there is fallout that changes the way businesses supported by that company must operate to stay relevant. Here at Saabs United, unfortunately, NEVS has fixed it so that there is nothing to report about used Saabs…NOTHING. There’s only so much the guys can write about granny’s old Saab or the Saab they had when they met their sweetheart, etc. Old timers sitting around reminiscing about the glory days becomes pitiful and sad (not necessarily in that order). Writing about “where we go from here” and writing about how those products compare to our beloved Saabs—areas where they are stronger or weaker—-keeps the site humming along. Sometimes I think people who are Saab enthusiasts are afraid to discuss other cars for fear that they might find that they actually like something just as much as they like their Saab. It’s a big automotive world. This is still, first and foremost, a Saab enthusiasts site. But until there’s something to talk about related to Saab news—-until there’s enough Saab news to fill the pages here—I see no reason why there can’t be some posts about other cars brands. Survival.

    • Meant to say that NEVS has fixed it so that there is nothing to report about NEW Saabs. Speaking of fixing things, how about fixing that “edit post” function!

      • I was wondering if anyone has a small oil leak that drips on the exhaust and has a burning smell in their cabin from it. On a 2007 saab 9-5 aero. These are the kinds of questions and forums we need. Help each other out to keep our cars on the road. Also, does anyone know where to get a door handle pull for the same model year. It’s been on backorder forever. Any ideas?

        These are the things we do on the Mustang forums.

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